the statue (1993)

Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore mrx. mrx. (143.238.60.198) [143.238.60.198] Just thought I'd dig this up. Anyone remember it ? --------------------------------------------------------- This is a lightly edited capture of an informal chat (live conference) held on The Portal System on the evening of Sunday, 1 May 1994. The main topic of conversation as you might expect was the impending demise of Commodore. Dave Haynie, one of the 22 remaining Commodore West Chester employees (as of this writing) and long-time Engineer at that facility was our guest. We chose to leave it an open chat this time rather than stifle the participants by going formal and taking questions in order, as we usually do with a special guest such as Dave. I've edited out a lot of fluff and kept all of Dave's comments intact. It may be hard to follow for some of you not used to this kind of capture. If you want to see just what Dave had to say, load this text into an editor and search repeatedly for the word "hazy". Dave appears under his usual pseudonym of "Hazy". I have also kept intact the list of participants in this chat and have made a few comments after the names of those who should be familiar to the Amiga community but may not be immediately recognizeable due to their chat "handles" or Portal pseudonyms. Many more people than are listed below came and went during the course of the four hours, about 80, so if you see people talking below whose names do not appear in this list, that's why. Dave Haynie has his own personal Portal account and you can send email to him at "hazy@cup.portal.com" If you are interested in joining Portal you may either: - call 1-408-973-9111 by voice or - telnet to portal.com and enter "online" and then "new" at the name prompt or - enter "c portal" at any Sprintnet prompt, then enter "online" at the service selector and "new" at the name prompt. An info file about Portal's Amiga Zone is available for the asking by sending email to harv@cup.portal.com ------- And now, a brief statement of purpose from the Amiga Zone: Given Commodore's current state of affairs, it is our intention now, more than ever, to offer the best possible online support for Amiga owners. We are not going away. We will perservere and carry on our tradition of support as we have since 1985. You have our word on this. And now, on with the chat: Meet who list /Meetings/SIG Meetings ----- Amiga Zone Sun. Dinner: Commodore Leftovers (Harv) Drakon (Drakon) Heifner - Communications (HCI-Chris) <--makers of "Pegger" Dale - Cozort (Dale - Cozort) Amiga2 (laire) <---one of our German guests ted-c (ted-c) KyleW (KyleW) Michael - Hertle (Mike) JWolf (JWolf) HAWK (HAWK) DrGandalf (DrGandalf) <--famous Amiga animator DanB (DanB) Glenn-EWS (Glenn-EWS) <--author of "Pegger" CarmenR (CarmenR) <--famous Amiga artist/animator Rabel1 (Rabel1) John D Short (Jodash) soft-logik (soft-logik) <---online support rep, Kevin Davidson Amiga2 (Wizardess{^_^}) <---Joanne Dow (of BIX fame) Worley (Worley) <---Steve Worley (Essence/Forge/Apex Publishing) Wizard0 (Wizard0) <---Asher Feldman (author of UUxT) pk-asdg (pk-asdg) <---Perry Kivolowitz, Pres. of ASDG Inc. gsarff (gsarff) DeanF (DeanF) Mike-C (Mike-C) <---Mike Crossmire (did graphics for AmigaVision) AmiGadget (AmiGadget) <---Jay Gross (magazine/book publisher/author) Imaginer (Imag) e-man (e-man) shawnZm (shawnZm) hazy (hazy) <---Dave Haynie, Commodore Engineer david roland crane (david roland crane) DB (DB) stb (stb) SkyPilot (SkyPilot) Bronx (Bronx) Furr (Furr) PKB (PKB) JeffH (JeffH) Bjarian (Bjarian) DrTed (DrTed) Michael Toaster Tobin (Michael Toaster Tobin) Harv (Harv) Cryo (Cryo) <----Bill Coldwell, Cryogenic Software Nyx (Nyx) <---Ken Dyke, former Commodore engineer (note.. during the evening, many more people came and went. This entire chat lasted over four hours. The transcript below begins about an hour into it, after Dave Haynie arrived. - Wizardess{^_^}: Dave made it Harv CarmenR: WB Harv! Drakon: re Harv DrTed: did D. Haynie make it here tonight?? Drakon: Thanks PKB: ok, harv. Hazy is here!! gsarff: WB Harv. Furr: Are we going into "Formal Conference" mode now? DeanF: re Harv, I take it you had something to do with Dave showing up a minute ago? :) Harv: hiya dave gsarff: (workbench harv:) JWolf: laire, who's gonna be makin s3 964 cards? Harv: i found ken who gave me randell's number who is going to call dave. PKB: lets crack down some rumors here!! Worley: Dave is still in shock.. he cannot type.. DeanF: or start some rumors :) CarmenR: Heh Michael Toaster Tobin: hi how is everyone doing? I hope developers don't abandon the Amiga. laire: Jwolf: well..S3 chips are pretty common in the pc world....Miro,Elsa,#9, .. Mike-C: <rummaging for the ATI ad> hazy: Actually, I have Randall on the other line, CarmenR: Michael: Are you a developer? Wizardess{^_^}: PKB: Why - rumors are so MUCH fun! They don't have to have any truth behind them. {O,o} Ack Plpt! Imag: Hey-not a bad crowd tonite1 :) Harv: dave if randell calls you, tell him "thanks and nevermind" :) hazy: I just did Drakon: Perry: redistubility of TRexx made scripts any problems? Worley: So is it true that the Senate is going to mandate Amiga purchases for all females of retirement age? soft-logik: I just wanna say that I've gotten tremendous amount of value, productivity and fun out of this A2000 here and have high hopes to continue to do so. SkyPilot: /who Harv: sorry'bout that chief Wizardess{^_^}: 1-900-AmigaWake Wizardess{^_^}: {O,o} PKB: rumors are like peanut butter and bread. We need some real MEAT!! DeanF: hehe pk-asdg: No, that's not a problem. ted-c: I second what Kev says! Harv: hiya perry! pk-asdg: Hullo Harv gsarff: I'm a vegetarian :) Drakon: coolness really like that package BTW hazy: We had an "Amiga Deathbead Vigil" at Randall's yesterday. There will be a T-Shirt, Drakon: Then give gsarff a real Carrot Harv: dave - i dunno if you just wanna type your thoughts or take questions or what. this is your night.will leave it to you HCI-Chris: So where do we sighn up to get the first SONY AMiga? AmiGadget: uh oh. laire too. hazy: and also a video. gsarff: I like carrot and peanut butter sandwiches, use dto take them for lunch to school in my little paper bag :) soft-logik: ! JWolf: Novell Amiga! AmiGadget: wow. a video! i love it. Mike-C: Lessee..it would appear the ATI is rouhgly 2x as fast as the Viper..abo ut ted-c: Come in Germany. Germany come in please! CarmenR: Will the CD32 be renamed to "My First Amiga?" Michael Toaster Tobin: I do medical multimedia education. Used ti have fun and was successful in a small way. I used to bring Amigas to meical conventio ns[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D. Many people would never have seen one. Didn't do a alot of g HCI-Chris: you may be on to something JWolf! DanB: A video..will it be put on CD for the CD-32? :) Harv: hi mr. tobin, sir. don't use your arrow keys in here. won't work. JWolf: Mike, 2x as fast is impressive. How much for a VLB Mach64 with 3 or 4 megs of ram? hazy: Actually, it may wind up on Video CD. We have friends in that biz. AmiGadget: ===> arrow keys? <=== ted-c: Michael, are you the dude in NYC, member of Amuse (and maybe will see you tomororow?) Mike-C: The list for the 4m version is $899 DeanF: Mike, be very wary of speed ratings in ads for pc video cards, they often use drivers cooked specifically for the test programs Harv: hope I don't have to buy a cd-i to see it {barf} pk-asdg: Hazy - been a lot time - do you still work for CBM? Furr: DeanF: Not anymore, at least not with the latest version of PC Magazine's test suite. JWolf: Dos anybody still work for CBM? hazy: At least for the next week or so. They go cash for next week's payroll. Mike-C: <looks at ratings based on WinBench 4.0> Harv: dave is one of the final survivors, apprently, but for how long Harv: :( Drakon: Hazy: thanks for stopping by, have a beer? hazy: ~20 in Engineering were spared last Wedneday's "Last Big Layoff" Wizardess{^_^}: Do they pay you at the end of the week for THAT week's work or the prior week's work? DB: done Status from Amiga2- joined JWolf: Greetings, Amiga2 AmiGadget: and what happens to all the technology? down the drain? soft-logik: Is anyone solidly interested in Amiga technology? ted-c: <- hoping still for some pleasant suprises tonight DB: done Mike-C: I worry about what my friend Wayne Lutz from IMSATT did Status from MagicFlute- joined DrTed: Lets just port Amiga-DOS to the TI 32080 and get on with things... JWolf: HiYa, MagicFlute MagicFlute: Hitas!! Amiga2: re Harv: dave there are rumors flying around about CEI and Safe Harbor and others - are you aware of these? DrGandalf: So, Dave, when is the A5000 coming out? Mike-C: He went to CBM to work on AV, but since that died MagicFlute: errr... Hiyas! hazy: Got one. New Amsterdam Amber. Case of Foster's out in the car, leftover from the party. Status from DB- left Furr: DrTed: Naaah. I want a PowerAmiga! ;-{)##] Furr: I have some Molson ICE for anyone that wants one. PKB: methinks that hazy has an A6000 wired up in his garage, hiding it from everyone.... Imag: Furr- ill have one Amiga2: harv JWolf: I wanna know when I should move my SCSI drives to my PeeCee. Wizardess{^_^}: Wayne Lutz is LONG AGO gone from Commodore. It is Chris Ludwig who remains I hear. Harv: amiga2 - /change [nickname] please Drakon: Yeah I Kinda would like to ask how close to a "5000" you were, but not sure I want to know AmiGadget: Ok, taking deposits for the Haynie 6000a computer. specs to be announced. availability: rsn. Knock from DeVoid- knock, knock Mike-C: Hmm. I didn't know Chris Ludwig.. Status from DeVoid- joined JWolf: Greetings, Void DeanF: hi de DeVoid: yo Status from Michael Toaster Tobin- joined JWolf: reHey, Michael Drakon: hi Devoid DeanF: re CarmenR: Is this Imaginer? Harv: (for anyone who doesn't know, Mike-C over there is the talented artist who designed all the glyphs/icons inside of AmigaVision) CarmenR: oops DeVoid: Yow! lotsa peeps ted-c: re hi Michael. Are you in NYC and member of Amuse? AmiGadget: amigavision, another dead technology. Drakon: didn't know that Hi mike Mike-C: <waves> Michael Toaster Tobin: yes how did you know? Status from ScottJ- joined JWolf: HiYa, Scott Harv: hi scott Mike-C: My claim to fame..<coff> KyleW: any chance of going formal for Hazy Harv? hazy: It's impossible to crank out an interesting computer without big heaps of cash. That kept the A5000 behind. DeanF: yeah, one of CBM's big problems in the last couple of years or so is changing their minds on things real real often Drakon: or does he want that? Harv: kyle - not unless he wants to. i think informal is more fun for tonite tho. he's been thru a lot. Furr: I just wish C= had gotten AmigaOS 3.1 out for all of us before this happened... Michael Toaster Tobin: whoo ted-c: Mike, I met you at Leigh's and gave you update of WorkBench Management system. PKB: formal chat? Lemme get my tux out of the hamper... ScottJ: Hello, Harv. DeanF: let me get my hamster out of my tux hazy: I actually started work on the system that probably would have become the A5000 back in '91, after the A3000+ was cancelled. DrGandalf: What was the A3000+? Mike-C: Er, which Mike? Michael Toaster Tobin: O.K. Thanks again. I called and thanked yoou on your ans machine. Furr: A3000+? hazy: Strangely enough, that's also when I first though C= might be doomed. Drakon: what was a hamster doing in your tux? Mike-C: <glances at himself> DeanF: Drak, mind yer own business :-) Drakon: :):):) ted-c: Mike, got the message. Sorry for not responding. See you at Amuse meeting tomorrow? Harv: laire - if you want to port this chat over to IRC if you can do that, feel free hazy: The A3000+ is what the A4000 should have been. Would have been had Ali not interfered in Engineering. ScottJ: Anyone recording this chat? Harv: i am scott SkyPilot: yes KyleW: NUKE Ali DeanF: Scott, is the Pope Jewish? Michael Toaster Tobin: Yes. II've been working with Emplant. Trying CD ROM. PKB: <-- recording latest part Furr: <== Capturing since Hazy joined. ScottJ: Someone please send it to me in e-mail. The unedited version please. Drakon: So Dave, have you any military expereince and are you willing to take a "vacation" in the Bahamas? MagicFlute: who DeanF: <--- just likes to draw ascii arrows ted-c: Mike, see you tomorrow then. The Amuse meeting is at 7 PM? Harv: appx 45 peepuls here Laire: harv: well...DNet's niftyterm clip routines are bogus...i can only log ..well..let's what i can do Mike-C: <mumbles snide things about John Campbell behind his back> hazy: I'm more comfortable with a katana than an M-16, and I love the islands. DrTed: Take a deep breath Hazy... Gould and Ali have no furter hold over you you can say all the nasty things you wouldn't let yourself say the past three years... ScottJ: Hazy, you have another job yet? Michael Toaster Tobin: I think around 6:10. Linus told me but I'm still in shock over CBM. Wizardess{^_^}: . Drakon: Katana, you have one? DeVoid: yr a stick man huh? Harv: michael - as are we all Furr: Hazy: How about shuriken with tetradoxin on the tips? (Fugu poison, for those who don't know what tetradoxin is....) hazy: Several possibilities. No firm offers yet, expecting several. Mike-C: I think some piano wire lashed between two dowels would work well ted-c: Mike, 6:10 that's early but I'll be there. Drakon: never could throw those striaght PKB: hazy: don't take the Tramiel offer. DeanF: hahaha DanB: heh Furr: PKB: ;) ;) ;) ;) Michael Toaster Tobin: Harv I just hope developers continue to support the Amiga -- and get oursupport in turn. Drakon: Mike: does have the same impact as a good clean Kendo slice DeVoid: Hey, Tramiel kept Atari alive. Thats an accomplishment hazy: I have a well-made replica katana, fully functional but not folded. Randell has several genuine Japanese swords. Harv: tramiel must be partying in the streets by now. sigh. Mike-C: Give `em the Godfather treatment ScottJ: Hazy, are you going to be able to finish DiskSalve 3? You showed it at my user group meeting a couple of weeks ago. DeVoid: Tramiel the elder is retired Drakon: I picked up a nice set a while back, KyleW: <- have one of the Air Force's best B-52 weapons loaders w/ me... we'll help in the Bahamas! DeanF: Devoid, Time-Warner kept Atari alive hazy: There was a "Bring back Jack" movement in late '91. CarmenR: Why?! Mike-C: <readies his backpack minigun> Drakon: I am sure LouDog would love to come ScottJ: Who wanted to do that? Furr: hazy: Can you tell us who might be interested in buying the Amiga technology, and which (if any) might bring it to market in a form we would recognize? Harv: dave - tell us about your video and how you would distribute/sell it? Bronx: <=== unsheaths his wagashiki now DeVoid: Well, Mehmet was the alternative they got Wizard0: dave- just tell all hazy: Obviously all this nonsense is a bring drain on my time, but I still intend to finish DiskSalv 3, probably by mid to late May now. I mean, job hunting did eat a few weekends. ScottJ: Atari has a lot of debt to Time Warner, dating back to when Jact Tramiel 1st bought Atari from them. hazy: The Video Story: Status from Cryo- joined JWolf: HiYa, lliB Bronx: carmenr not yet soft-logik: Hey BIll Cryo: moo Mike-C: It's the lliB-man! PKB: shhh!! The master speaks (types) hazy: I got back from a trip last Monday night. When I got to work on Tuesday, I heard that most everyone left in Engineering would be gone on Wednesday. Harv: laire if you can't do it, don't sweat it. ScottJ: Its tha Amiga wake. :-( :-( . hazy: Wednesday morning I decided I out to record whatever happened. So I bought 8 hours worth of 8mm tape and went at it. gsarff: from what I can see in another window, in IRC they are busy waving their genitals at each other and are probably too dumb for a conference like this. CarmenR: Heheh Furr: Gsarff: {grin!} hazy: I did a walk-though of the West Chester plant. Then the going-away party at Margaritas. Finally the "Death Bed Vigil" at Randall's yesterday. Mike-C: <chimes in on the collective sigh> laire: test Drakon: Any idea how much it would cost to bring the "5000" to completion? CarmenR: I hope my funeral is that cheerful. Glenn-EWS: hazy, that tape would be great to bundle with -RJ- s, Early Amiga tape. Status from Prolific- joined JWolf: Greetings, Prolific CarmenR: Drakon: Are you gonna flip the bill? Drakon: I wish I would if I could hazy: I do plan to clean this up to some extent, depending on how easily I can track down some good editing equipment. I mentioned getting "professional help" at the party, but I think they took it the wrong way. Prolific: Wow... that was quick, JWolf. How did you know I was here so quick? DeanF: hehehe DanB: heh Furr: Carmen: I wish I'd won a humongous lottery jackpot about now.... Harv: drgandalf has a bit of editing equipment :) Cryo: so no more bobbing for A600s.. DrGandalf: Dave, you're welcome to come here for an edit session. JWolf: Prolific, I was waiting just for you. 8-} Mike-C: *sigh* I remember being at that first AmiExpo.. ScottJ: Anyone know what platform is most like the Amiga? hazy: Good stuff on that tape. I asked folks for messages to Mehdi Ali. Got lots of stories. Mike Rivers, Keith Gabryelski, and myself singing "Mr. Jones" (they also played, etc.). Drakon: Has anyone heard from Jay Miner lately? MagicFlute: Just bought a new 4000 for our Toster Studio last week. Status from Cryo- joined JWolf: reYo, lliB DrGandalf: I remember that. Remember the monitors going nuts because the subway was behind the wall. PKB: There is no platform like the Amiga. It is unique. MagicFlute: My old one is in the shop ... waiting for a mother board! pk-asdg: Dave, who was there? Cryo: Jay's in a convelecent hospital. hazy: The "Chicken Lip Blues", which was written at the party and sung by Mike. Wizard0: Drakon: I called his board a few hours ago, but he wasn't around.. JWolf: Dave, do you think Commodore can rise from the ashes or is this really it for them? Imag: N{4heheh Prolific: DAVE, I read that Wondows NT was never considered to the Amiga, but I seem to recall you mentioning the possibility here a few months back. Status from laire- left HCI-Chris: Cryo....really...that's a shame.... Harv: there's a press release from bryce in the press release msg base now about the t-shirt generated by the party yesterday. JWolf: Cyro, what's wrong with Jay Glenn-EWS: Chris, theres always Pasadena.. sigh. hazy: We had a great turnout at the party. Bryce Nesbitt, Gail Wellington, Keith, and many other ex-C= folks made it back. Cryo: JW: He's not a young springling anymore. pk-asdg: Who...? Harv: jay miner Furr: JWolf: I do recall that the Padre has kidney trouble.... other than that, I don't know. Drakon: Perry: Jay Miner Wizard0: He's not that old is he? HCI-Chris: Glenn-EWS - be glad we had the experience! Harv: jay had at least 1 kidney transplant Wizard0: Thought he was in his 60's? JWolf: Cyro, I work at a nursing home. I know about these things. hazy: Yeah, they posted the T-Shirt offer from the party. George Robbins put it up as we were making it. Everyone signed their name, it goes on the back. The front was inspired by the NewTek spinoff. Furr: I shall be ordering a t-shirt. JWolf: Dave, do you think Commodore can rise from the ashes or is this really it for them? CarmenR: spinoff? Status from laire- joined JWolf: reHiYa, Laire HCI-Chris: Hazy - any rumors who might buy the technology? laire: puhhh... Harv: carmen - "play" the newtek leavers' new company in s.f. CarmenR: Harv: Oh. CarmenR: Hmmm Harv: <---doing color commentary Cryo: dave, so where do you go from here? hazy: As I understand it, there won't be any C=. Who cares. The real question is, will there be any Amiga. No ideas here. Furr: Harv: BURN the ex-NewTek traitors! ;-) Mike-C: THey are an ex-parrot DeVoid: Wesley Crusher is going to buy the Amiga assets? DeanF: hehehe laire: ok..let's hope i have configurated everything the right way:B CarmenR: [Carmen slaps DeVoid] Harv: dave - you couldn't have said it better. hazy: Obviously the technology, production rights, etc. are assets that someone will buy. Drakon: Furr: chill they jsut left because of the diffence in direction AmiGadget: hazy, yes, i couldn't care less if c= croaks, but the amiga should live on, somehow HCI-Chris: alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die Status from pk-asdg- left Harv: maybe perry went to get his checkbook :) DanB: heh soft-logik: [Actually I care if C= croaks ;-( ] AmiGadget: heh MagicFlute: heheh Drakon: I wish we could a Daddy Warbucks right about now AmiGadget: soft, you have a vested interest Bjarian: So, when does 3.1 come out? CarmenR: Soft: Reason being? ted-c: Hazy, will you have any affiliation with who might buy the technology. Are you interested? DeVoid: just your stocks Kevin. Forget them. DrTed: So how will Mehdi replace his 5 to 10 million $ commodore income??? Harv: anyone wanna go find ross perot and get him drunk? PKB: maybe Perry logged out to retool to the mac... DeVoid: You learned about gambling. As did I soft-logik: Carmen, see Dev's remark Mike-C: Well..obviously NewTek has a strong interest in the Amiga hardware, since they rather depend on it.. Furr: Harv: (!!!!!!) ;-) Drakon: Hey now there is an Idea!!! MagicFlute: I hope the Ami survives, I get enough Pee Cees at work! Harv: hey, perot is hip to computers (and not much else) HCI-Chris: Mike-C : NewTek can't afford it.... Status from CaptnBilly- joined Bjarian: Newtek is 6 people. JWolf: Greetings, CaptnBilly CaptnBilly: yo, all JWolf: How much is the Amiga part of Commodore worth? soft-logik: BTW, I figured out how to solve the National Debt... hazy: Honestly, C= run by anyone with a survival instinct would be C= in name only. Would be nice. Harv: indeed, newtek's future is another huge question mark now ScottJ: What company is Medhi Ali going to ruin next? AmiGadget: jon, 86 cents on the open market Mike-C: . o O {The company that made the cheapo DigiView buys up the Amiga division..ooohh, sceeerrrr, keeds} laire: nobody in the amiga 3rd party area would have the resources to take over CBM's rests PKB: soft: how?? soft-logik: Give Hillary Clinton $25,000 and let her invest it at 212% interest for 11 years. DeVoid: Its worth whatever someone is willing to pay Wolf. Could be next to nothing. Furr: Chris: Maybe not NewTek alone, but add in a number of other Amiga- dependent companies and maybe a Shining Angel from the outside....? AmiGadget: newtek's future... add 50 more cents AmiGadget: hillary... add another nickel Prolific: The Toaster could easily be moved to anothe rplatform. It is almost self-contained (regardless what people say about it). HCI-Chris: Furr----maybe...we'll see... Cryo: utter.. gotta be. Mike-C: I just mentioned it as an amusing thought.. soft-logik: Pro, but the toaster is largely software Wizardess{^_^}: Who da heck cares about Mehdi's megabuck income? I'm glad to see him unemployed. (Finally out of /priv. <sigh>) Bjarian: Dave, what about the stories about HP or Philips wanting to buy C= ScottJ: I want AmigaDos 3.1. Any chance of someone licensing it and selling it? Drakon: yep, and there was a "Toaster-eques" system demoed at the last VTU anonymous meeting that plugged into the SCSI port of a PC Drakon: and cost 10 grand Prolific: Softrware can be re-compiled. The hardware just has to be rearranged to fit in a different bus. Harv: wizardess best to not /pri whensharing an account like that. the other amiga2s will see all your pris. hazy: We were talking about pooling together to buy Mark Barett a 3DO system and "passsending 3DO an official note l^) Wizard0: Scott-Get 3.1 off a pirate board.. I doubt C= will complain. AmiGadget: is mehdi part of the company that gould controls that made c= the "secured" loans to keep it afloat, as mentioned in their annual report? ScottJ: Wizardess, I'd like to see Ali begging on the street, rolling in the gutter. Furr: ScottJ: Ditto on that! We want our AmigaDOS 3.1!! ;-) Mike-C: Maybe Medhi and Irv will have time for their second honeymoon now. Bjarian: Drak, at HT? Michael Toaster Tobin: help Drakon: BJ: yes Harv: i would't buy marc barrett anything except maybe a bus ticket to the south pole AmiGadget: are letterbombs still considered illegal? Harv: michael - try /help with a slash ScottJ: Wizard, I really dont want to do that. JWolf: I'm hoping that a company with clout will buy that Amiga and we will get the software written for the Amiga that needs to be written so that the Amiga can sit on deksks next to peeCees and Macs. Drakon: Ami: yes if you get caught Furr: Harv: Would you buy him a cyanide capsule? ;-) hazy: Fred Bowen's theory is that Irving died six years ago, but Mehdi keeps an Irving look-alike on retainer for occasional public appearances. AmiGadget: drak, ok. well, thanks for clearing that up. Harv: furr, i don't want to kill anyone. just shoot him to mars Prolific: I read that Lotus is not going to support the PowerPC Macs. Drakon: More importantly does the Bahamas have extriditon to the US or vica versa AmiGadget: hazy, hehe. interesting theory. Furr: Wizard0: Any hints on where to look for a pirate copy of 3.1? [GRIN!] Bjarian: Harv, the prize tonite should be C=! Mike-C: [to Hazy] Maybe like that Star Trek episode where the starship captain was a drugged-up Fuhrer JWolf: Lotus 1-2-3 is dead on the MAC. ted-c: Pro, I read that too. Lotus said the Mac market was to small! Harv: bjarian, the prize tonite is you get to talk to dave. laire: harv: we would all say what we want about MB's attitude but his view about CBM's problems was right... CarmenR: Bj: Hehe AmiGadget: my theory is that the whole financial disaster is a plot by gould et al to own the company outright. ScottJ: Yes, just what is Mark Barrettgoing to do with his life now? :-) laire: would=could AmiGadget: i just wonder who the "et al" is Cryo: mv /v40/kickstart /orphan Drakon: Harv: thats great then I won also AmiGadget: and whether it's "et ali" Mike-C: <flips with the little levers in Irv's back to make his lips move> soft-logik: Lotus's port of their Mac spreadsheet to the PC seems to have fizzled. Rabel1: The Prize tonight is 100,000 shares of CBU stock or $5 (whichever is worth more on Monday) Furr: Slogik: Do you mean Improv? Harv: this is so dam sad. sigh AmiGadget: pay no attention to the puppy chewing the curtains soft-logik: Yes, Improv Status from Heifner - Communications- joined JWolf: HiYa, Heifner ScottJ: Furr, there's a guy in csa.misc offering to make copies of AmigaDos 3.1. CarmenR: Hi Heif Harv: that's incredibly illegal, scott JWolf: Improv was on Os/2. Prolific: I have to get through to my stockholder to cancel my Buy order. ;) MagicFlute: The sadest thing Harv is that we will be living in an ALL-PC- WORLD! soft-logik: oh ScottJ: Harv, frankly I dont care any more. Furr: Harv: Maybe so, but pirating software that the company can't and won't distribute because it's defunct doesn't strike me as such a horrendous moral lapse. Drakon: Magic: NO WE WON"T Never say die PKB: all pc world? aeeeeiiiiii!!! DanB: Harv: I agree...pretty darn sad...strange to get depressed about a machine. hazy: We thought of a possible business for some of us C= types. We buy C= stock at 0.50 a share, or whatever. Sign the back, sell them for $19.95. Well, too late now... Mike: And Windoze, JWolf. Cryo: great time to bring out the WarpEngine.. sigh Mike-C: All I care is I have a computer to run the apps I need to make dough..at last. HCI-Chris: well...something wierd just happened to my 4000...keyboard and mouse died at the same time! Harv: i wonder how close 3.1 was to going to dealers. DanB: I'm tired of losing people/things in my life. DeVoid: I don't care about pirating 3.1. No one will sell it, its done, what more is there to consider? soft-logik: Dave, I can make you a good deal on some C= stock ;-( AmiGadget: 2.1 works. who cares. CaptnBilly: I wonder what is going to happen with Amazing and Amiga World? ScottJ: I'm more than willing to buy AmigaDos 3.1 but if no one will sell it.... hazy: 3.1 was released by Software. I don't know if production made any. Wizard0: And its not as if C= would complain about pirating 3.1. :-) DeVoid: that csa.misc poster is a disgruntled developer CarmenR: Jay: 3.1 is faster. Harv: i talked to amiga world. no plans to do anything for now but of course that's up to IDG. AmiGadget: before they ask, amigadget magazine is NOT hiring. Cryo: look how long Run stayed around JWolf: What I want to know is, what will the 3rd parties be doing? DrTed: Isn't 3.1 only really effective if you have the 3.x kickstart??? Drakon: DeVoid, It is still part of the CBM Amiga assest that are on the block, if Hihgly pirated, it may make the Amiga less attractive for a buyer. Wait a couple weeks ScottJ: I have AmigDos 2.04. #.1 would be a big change for me. Cryo: JW: redeployment Bjarian: Hazy: yes there are some 27C200 eproms out. Furr: DrTed: You can load that from disk. hazy: 3.1 is a KS/WB release Mike-C: AmigaWorld....aka "The Leaflet" hazy: You need a 27C400 for the 16-bit machines. Wizard0: Doesn't the cd32 have 3.1 roms? Furr: Drakon: Even if I pirated 3.1, I'd still buy a "real" copy to get it in chips instead of a disk-loaded file. ScottJ: Drakon, by the time the creditors sort out who own AmigaDos and who gets the money from selling it yeards will probably pass. Drakon: what is it for the 3000? Bjarian: Two 27C200's CaptnBilly: I had just made out my renewal check for two years for Amiga World. Prolific: We will continue selling Pro-Board as long as people buy it. DanB: Does anybody with a 3000 besides me still have their Kickstart boot from the HD? CaptnBilly: Haven't mailed it yet, tho... DrTed: Oh.... Then I want it too... especially since I have a soft-kick 3000... AmiGadget: dan, mine does Status from Cryo- joined Furr: DanB: I still have mine. DeVoid: I have a soft-kick 3000 JWolf: reGreetings, lliB CarmenR: DanB: This machine I'm borring does DeanF: Dan, I don't but I still have the old ROMS, I could put them back in Mike-C: Then again..NeXTworld has become "The flyer" CarmenR: borrowing stb: Soft Kick here... ScottJ: Furr, there are people who can burn Proms & Eproms with AmigaDos 3.1. DanB: So I'm not so stubborn after all... hazy: If no one picks up and makes Amigas, the Amiga market doesn't disappear for most software vendors, the magazines, etc. hazy: At least not overnight. Cryo: Ken Dyke is also on here as "me". DanB: not that that necessry follows :) Prolific: We have a 3000 which does that (no 1.3 ROM, however). Harv: hi ken! thanks for your help DanB: +il ScottJ: My Amiga 3000 is softkicked. hazy: The real problem is for companies like NewTek that depend mainly on new systems , not add-ons to existing systems. Cryo: Harv: No problem. AmiGadget: i like the kickstart being on harddisk. laire: yo ken Imag: I dont know if mine is soft or hard ScottJ: give AmigaWorld 6 months. DanB: Me too, Jay. Furr: Gadget: I don't like burning 512k of system RAM to load it from disk. AmiGadget: and my A1000 is still a two disk boot. MagicFlute: What are the chance of anyone coming up with an AMIClone? DeanF: mine is hard or soft depending on which part of the magazine I am looking at ;-) Bjarian: I just got a subscription soliciation for "DIE HARD" a mag for c64. PKB: ScottJ: My AmigaWorld sub is up for renewal. Guess I will just buy off the rack... Mike-C: I thought Julie might even show up tonight..it appears not ScottJ: Someone will make 3.1 available on rom, even if its done illgalyy. DrTed: Hazy, was all the glowing reports on the CD32 just hype??? DeVoid: How long since anyone saw Julie on line? hazy: If someone bought the rights, and CSG stays in operation. The A4000T is a snap -- it fits in any PC-AT case, tower or desktop. Harv: magazines make their money thru ads, not subscriptions anyway. laire: harv: well...it would be nice if somebody says something about the current situation there after Chapter 7 or 6 ScottJ: Samehere PKB. DeanF: PKB...in my area (Atlanta) Cub Foods gets Amiga World much quicker than any other place :) hazy: CD32 and A1200 are harder, since you'd need to acquire the tool for the casework. HCI-Chris: Hazy - what is CSG? Bjarian: Julie was on line yesterday from a hotel. I think she is travelling. Cryo: hazy, only 7 years too late :-( Imag: Ami-how can I tell if it is kikstarted from the harddisk? Dale - Cozort: Hazy:Did you get any feeling that this was planned at at all-I mean was anyone at C= thinking ahead and trying fora soft landing? CarmenR: What's CSG? Wizardess{^_^}: Dunno what Dave knows.... But I have two CDROMs from the covers of British magazines sitting in by the CD-32. JWolf: WHat will happn if an existing Amiga needs repair? Wizardess{^_^}: It sold well enough to support at least a few issues of such magazines. laire: hazy: more than half or the 60 A4T germany got seem to be defective DeVoid: Imag, look in devs: hazy: CSG = Commodore Semiconductor Group, nee MOS Technology. PKB: JWolf: call hazy DeVoid: for devs:kickstart Mike-C: [Bjarian] What time? HCI-Chris: Hazy - what are the chances of them staying open? JWolf: What if a custom chip blows? soft-logik: It''s dead, Jim Harv: i talked to opal yesterday. they still fully plan to release their new modules. CarmenR: JWolf: Hopefully, you'll have a spare chip in the trunk DeanF: When Harv? MagicFlute: Needs an A4000 motherboard now! Imag: No devs:kickstart ScottJ: Dave, will there be an auction at CBM headquarters? Is there anything left there that an Amiga fan might want to buy? Harv: dean - real close. beta testing 50 boards now Mike-C: Hrm. I need Julie to send me my Synapse logo so I can load it into my Freehand and print some more DeanF: Harv, my coupons expire in June :) DeVoid: then you must have a rommed maching Imag hazy: Last I heard, there are plenty of chips out there. Part of the problem, actually, since it was easy to make lots of C= chips, but real money was needed for the non-C= parts. PKB: I would think that products in the pipeline will continue, but future plans may be put on hold. Harv: dean i'm sure they'll extend. don't worry CarmenR: Dean: The coupons will probably be extended Imag: Thanks Devoid ScottJ: JWolf, but another system as a backup or a source of spare parts. Prolific: I JUST REALIZE... no more PowerUp specials or deadlines. :( Cryo: Dave Haynie's chair available for 4 empty Pepsi cans. Mike-C: I suppose I'll hafta get my Amiga mouseport fixed eventually.. DrGandalf: Wonder if NewTek will still put the Flyer out. Harv: newtek has a lot to lose. jenison must have a good ulcer going by now laire: cryo: hehe JWolf: I'll give 4 empty Pepsi cans and 1 unopened Pepsi can for Dave's chair. hazy: Some parts, like Lisa, Bridgette, Akiko, Gayle, etc. are not made at CSG. So one needs only the rights, and a sufficient order, to have the respective manufacturer's crank those out. HCI-Chris: NewTek will put the Flyer out....probably sooner than they planned! Drakon: Doc: from what I've heard they are too far along to quit out now DeVoid: So how difficult would it be to contract with IBM to produce 4000Towers dave? Cryo: Is it the original logo Pepsi can, or the new look? ScottJ: I'll take Dave's computer. DrGandalf: Hope so. I want one. Status from Bjarian- left JWolf: Cyro, no idea. Depends what the local SUpermarket has in stock. Harv: IBM is laying off 28,000 people. Cryo: SJ: That's already spoken for.. Will a slightly used slide rule do? Drakon: I want the 5000 beta Dave's been working on Status from shawnZm- left DrTed: We all know how pepsi spoils after the first hundred years in the can.... hazy: Dunno. The A4000 was made in the Phillipines plant, which would presumably be sold. They made A1200s under contract in Scotland, obviously anyone with the rights could get them made. Status from DonM- joined JWolf: HiYa, Don soft-logik: Harv, you should walk through some IBM branck off DeVoid: IBM might like to find some new work for its formerly guaranteed job workers soft-logik: rewind DonM: what a mob ScottJ: I want the cool jacket Dave sported at my user group meeting. Cryo: Drakon: You wouldn't be able to do much with it. ;) DonM: what's goin on? soft-logik: Harv, you should walk through some IBM branch offices. Whole floors with nobody in sight. Drakon: Oh yeah??? :0 Imag: Dave-so nothings made in germany anymore? hazy: Basically, it's possible for someone to make Amigas without C= with the proper rights secured. That doesn't prevent the end, since it doesn't carry any promoseise of improvements. It does delay the end. Harv: i spent a week in an ibm office once taking a class to learn the system/36. felt like i was at the CIA> office doors with combination locks on them, nothing but white shirts, etc. DeVoid: Scotland production was on contract? Then some outside company has the specs and moulds and stuff. Hm CaptnBilly: Intel Inside! heh! Michael Toaster Tobin: help name Harv: michael to use a chat handle just type /change [newname] ScottJ: Dave, who makes the Buster & Super Denise chips? Furr: Intel OUTSIDE! ;-) hazy: You might be surprised how much stuff exists on the outside. DrGandalf: Intel trashcan Cryo: hey now. Harv: dave - don't leave without your carton of boing logos. those things are valuable! :) hazy: Buster and Super Denise is CSG. Lisa was HP and NCR. ScottJ: Dave, were you signed to a NDA when CBM shut down? hazy: I have some Boing! logos, I think Randell and Porter have some too, though many went as party favors yesterday. Wizardess{^_^}: That is implicit with an employment contract, ScottJ. Prolific: Scott, he was probably signed to an NDA when he signed on. ScottJ: Thanks Dave. Maybe someone will buy the Buster & Super Denise stocks so people can upgrade. hazy: C= hasn't officially been shut down in West Chester, just nearly so. JeffH: Nite people.... Dave, Thanks for some of the greatest toys I've ever played with!! gsarff: yes, I still have an old buster in my 4000. sigh CarmenR: SeaQuest is one! JWolf: Just making the Amiga is almost useless. We need SUPPORT. DeVoid: I still have workbench 1.1, and Kaleidescope, but I lost the Boing demo Harv: dave - is jeff still working on selling the technology? or is that over now DrTed: How long before commodore is officially and legally dead??? ScottJ: I want to hear the real inside story of CBM. I'veheard lots of rumors but no one was willing to speak openly. Harv: nite jeffh Wizardess{^_^}: Gee, I still have acopy of Radar Raiders.... (v27.xxx stuff) hazy: When folks are laid off, they usually have to sign an outgoing NDA, different than what you sign to get in. If you don't, you don't get your severance pay. Without C= ongoing, that's hardly much of a concern. DanB: DeVoid, I still have the Boing Demo, as well as WB1.0... Wizardess{^_^}: Just never got the rights to distribute the two different Biong! demos. Wizardess{^_^}: er Boing! CarmenR: ScottK: You mean like the bizarre pagan rituals and human saccrifices that goses on behind closed doors? Status from JeffH- left stb: How about the flying eagle demo for 1.0.... got you there... Harv: radar raiders. i remember that. hazy: Jeff is sticking around for two weeks or so to see if he can make any sort of deals. Others are trying too, but I don't know what will come of it. DeVoid: I had 1.0, but must have formatted it all when 1.1 came. It was pretty bad Harv: stb - the e/a demo? i have one that runs in 1.3 I think ScottJ: I think there's a book in this somewhere. The Rise and Fall of CBM. Anyone know a good writer? DrGandalf: Void, you formatted a bit of history! DanB: My KS1.0 disk went bad, but I still have the disk :) Harv: <---writer for hire Wizardess{^_^}: 1.0 almost made me regret buying my A1000. It was about as bad as GridOS. (Don't ask.) JWolf: How long is long enough to wait until we declare the Amiga a dead item? soft-logik: I should get out Marble Madness for old times sake (still a hell of a game). stb: Mine only ran with 1.0... Cryo: "THis is the Amiga computer speaking.." ScottJ: Write it then Harv. DrGandalf: JWolf, at least a few years before the Amiga is dead. DeanF: yeah, I always hoped for an AGA Marble Madness Status from MagicFlute- joined Harv: scott - sure. offer me a $20,000 advance and I'll start work on it tomorrow DeVoid: I have Marble Madness on my 3000. JWolf: reGreetings, MagicFlute soft-logik: [wish I'd bought racter] gsarff: I tried to get kaliedascope to run a few weeks ago on my 4000 but it crashed Prolific: JWold... people are still driving Model Ts. My next door neighbor has a functional PC XT. Furr: DeanF: Marble Madness, OK -- but *I* wanted an updated **ARCHON**! PKB: i remember GridOS. ewwww. MagicFlute: Re!! e-man: DeanF, write it. DeVoid: Mindwalker works just fine on 2.04 also ScottJ: I want to hear all the gory details of Medhi Ali's interference and screwups. Furr: I still have a functional TRS-80 Model 4P. DrGandalf: gsarff, FIXHUNK polyscope. I got it to run. Nyx: ScottJ: No you don't. It's really depressing. Mike-C: Harpoon doesn't work under 2.04, though..dammit DanB: Anyone else still have the original Tutorial disk? DeVoid: 4P? thats a cool maching Wizard0: I was playing with my Vic-20 yesterday.. DeVoid: machine stb: I do! laire: Devoid: Boot 1.3 on an A4000 and Marble Madness works..i've see it:-B Prolific: It is SO DIFFICULT to type with this wrist brace on!!! MagicFlute: Well, I guess this kills the plans for my new BBS program, alreay 20% done too. Harv: if we could somehow involve tonya harding, rosanne barr and lorena bobbit with a commodore book i'd guarantee sales of 10 million copies :) laire: seen DrGandalf: I have a VIC-20. Wonder if it works? JWolf: Furr, I recent;y saw an updated Archon for the PeeCee. gsarff: ah Furr: JWolf: Really? Where? Status from Imag- left Drakon: I just want to hear all the gory details of Medhi Ali's encounter wiht a band of katana welding Amigaoids DonM: i take it the discussion has been C= alleged impending demise.. at least from the resigned tone. That about right? PKB: polyscope ought to be up on Aminet, but isn't. Is is copywrite still? JWolf: Gandalf, I mean dead as no company buying the Amiga to make, support, and continue development. Harv: donm - dave haynie is here. he is one of the 23 remaining people at commodore west chester. DeVoid: I had a couple diff tutorials. Gold Disk did the last one e-man: <-- 1.1 Amiga Tutor on "extras" Disk. DonM: 23 gsarff: some stupid tonya movie was on last night I see from tv guide. geez DonM: ugh ScottJ: There were books about the Rise & Fall of Atari. The company that brought the world the C64 deserves at least as much. Harv: pkb - polyscope is here DanB: Yea, that's the one...Amiga Tutor Mike-C: I still have my Dpaint (I) even AmiGadget: scott, if you want to publish a book, i'll write it. JWolf: Furr, I think it was Electronic Boutique. DanB: heh, Mike...me too. Furr: JWolf: Thanks. Status from CaptnBilly- left stb: <== Dpaint I DonM: hello mister Hazy, sir. Got sharp toenails, then? PKB: harv: where is it hiding? (polyscope?) soft-logik: <- getting bleary eyed. Nite all Cryo: it dragged on way too long.. it was time to put a bullet in its head. DeanF: bye Kevin ScottJ: The Philadelphia Inquirer was interested in doings at CBM. I wonder if anyone there would be interested inwriting a book about CBM? SkyPilot: lr MagicFlute: Nite Soft! gsarff: bye Prolific: Night, Kevin Drakon: Nite soft Status from soft-logik- left Harv: pkb - um.m try the games or anims library or use the search function. AmiGadget: scott, if you want to publish a book, i'll write it. HAWK: nite soft DonM: nite kev... ScottJ: I PKB: ok harv DanB: nite Kev ScottJ: I'm not a writer, Jay. How about you & Harv? AmiGadget: i'll hand it to you turnkey, as i do with all my books so far. DrTed: Prolific.... what did you do to your wrist??? gsarff: or National enquirer. Mehdi Ali is really space alien from krypton, see photos inside for proof! MagicFlute: LOLOLOL Status from Mikety- left AmiGadget: you pay for the printing and market it, and i get paid for writing it. simple. Status from HCI-Chris- left Prolific: I was in an automobile accident. ScottJ: Jay, how about contacting AmigaWorld about a book on CBM? Harv: well... this sucks. DrTed: oooohhh.... bad luck.... AmiGadget: i don't work for amigaworld. they are too big. ScottJ: Dont have that kind of money Jay. SkyPilot: gw~ Harv: amigaworld sells a nice "history of the amiga" video tape. yawl should get one. Mike-C: Maybe it'll make for a report on Monday's NBR ted-c: yeah, Harv. I guess no pleasant suprises tonight :( DeVoid: I never had DPaint 1. Got II as a protected disk Cryo: a great master once told me "The best thing Commodore can do for third parties is to stay alive", when I was whining about how the 3000 elminated the 3rd party market. JWolf: A book about CBM will end up in the overstock section in about 6 months. DonM: I still think Bill Gates has been paying Ali, G(h)ould, et al, under the table. Furr: It's enough to make one want to invent a time machine and go back and assassinate Gould and Ali the day they took office. Cryo: the great master was very right. AmiGadget: scott, you could go it for under $20,000 AmiGadget: under $15,000 probly DonM: why else could they have been so stupid? Harv: what i wanna know is how c= sold 5 million amigas with virtually no marketing, while apple, with megabucks thrown into marketing, has only sold 10 million macs. Drakon: Furr; But failing that, revenge would be soooo sweet ScottJ: JWolf, not necessarily. I bnet a lot of Amiga owners wouldlike toknow what had happened at CBM. AmiGadget: i even provide isbn number, and expertise on where to market Status from The-Nameless- joined JWolf: Greetings, The-Nameless Furr: I still think the reason Apple never sued C= over WorkBench is they didn't want to give the Amiga the publicity. Nyx: Harv: AFAIK, THe number of Mac's is above 15 million DrTed: I wonder where commodore would be if the tramiels were not thrown out???? hazy: Apple doesn't sell Macs to the below-$1000 market. The-Nameless: Hi folks. SkyPilot: hi Harv: nyx - you sure? john scully announced 10 million about a year ago just before he left PKB: I am really surprised that CBM lasted this long, especially after MicroSoft and Lotus and Borland turned their noses up on it so long ago. Nyx: Harv: Huh...maybe I'm wrong then. ;) ScottJ: Where Atari is now. In business but out of the computer market. MagicFlute: Dillullo's comment about "embarrasing Amiga fans" now turns into Amiga fans embarrased by CBM management AmiGadget: hazy, saw a performa 400 at wal-mart this afternoon for $999. no kidding. Harv: :) Mike-C: It cost Apple a bout $800 per machine for the advertising DeVoid: cbm was run by old style corrupt american business management, not people who loved their product. Even loving the product didn't save NeXt. JWolf: Commodore's downfall was when they let WordPerfect get away. DonM: You'll know Commodore is gone, and nobody's gonna buy the Amiga when the magazine columnists start ttalking about how great and advanced the Amiga was. Status from CliffG- joined hazy: Compaq claimed to sell around 500,000 units a month. Apple's just a tad bigger, so they probably do a similar business these days. Dale - Cozort: DRTED:I doubt that Amiga would have been around . JWolf: Greetings, CliffG Furr: Gadget: I have seen other Macs for sale under $1000 -- without monitors, of course. The-Nameless: CBM had the management intelligence of a turnip. AmiGadget: donm, good point ScottJ: No kidding. AmiGadget: nameless, correct! Cryo: so what's your point? DeanF: Amiga WordPerfect was buggy as hell, and not written with the Amiga owner in mind, it was a quick and dirty prot DeanF: port laire: hazy: somebody asked me on irc if you know what happens with the Installer licences and the WB licence when CBM's assets change ownership ScottJ: I wish the CSM guys had come online and said their effort hadfaied. PKB: dean: you had it right. It was a prot. DeanF: hehe Prolific: I still like WordPerfect (doesn't multitask well for other Workbench programs, but I LOVE those macros). DeVoid: I don't have any trouble with WPerfect at all. I've never gotten another word processor. CarmenR: I thought Dillullo's comment was insulting. Harv: the CSM guys have been very silent lately. i would sure like to hear something from them. hazy: $999 isn't really "below $1000" in most places (sales tax), and to most people (you round to $1000). DeVoid: they don't own anything of value any more. Furr: Harv: The eternally optimistic among us might think that "no news is good news" as far as CSM goes... ;-) DrGandalf: Or at Sears, its $999.99 JWolf: Dean, if WordPerfect Corp (WPC) had stayed with the Amiga, it would have been done right. Look at Pagestream. It was a very buggy quick and filthy port frm the Atari when it first came out. ScottJ: WordPerfect Corp's been having trouble porting their wp to ANY GUI systems. MagicFlute: CArmen, Dillullos attitude seems to have been shared by CBM upper management The-Nameless: Who's bidding for the "Amiga Technology?" Anyone know? Harv: void - yet they stirred up a lot of people for a year. they owe it at least to publish something DonM: boy, the situation must be bad. you guys are griping faster than i can read! ScottJ: I agree Harv. The-Nameless: DanM- same Harv: don, heh. AmiGadget: nameless, i've offered 98 cents, but no word on acceptance, yet. Furr: DonM: If you think this is fast, you should have seen it earlier. gsarff: yes, and WP was bought by novell not in the best of health Cryo: nameless: so far, it's 4 empty Pepsi cans and 1 full one for Dave's chair. Drakon: and that "attitude" is what killed them Dale - Cozort: Hazy:Can you tell us how close the AAA chipset was to ready to go? Furr: Cryo: Hmph. Coca-Cola Classic *Rulez!* laire: ok..fine CarmenR: MagicFlute: So much Amigas were sold by word-of-mouth, and they said that our word of mouth was an embarrasment to them.. Screw them. Wizardess{^_^}: laire - maybe you want to /unpriv? DonM: harv, does anybody buffer these chats? This one in particular. DeVoid: Hi laire DrGandalf: Folx, I think I'll be off. Gotta work tomorrow! Harv: don i am capturing all of this ScottJ: WP is too locked into the Shift, Alt F5 word processing paradigm. Nyx: Dale: Not very. Harv: nite drg. DeanF: bye Eric DrTed: We should have gone moderated conference... Hazy is getting only about one line out of 50... DanB: Nite Doc SkyPilot: ltr dr>!~ Status from DrGandalf- left JWolf: Coke Classic is not the same drink as before New Coke. Pepsi is better then any Coke. laire: wiz: i wasn't in /pri mode hazy: We need one rev of each chip. These were taped out last fall, I think, but of course not made. DonM: Thanks harv. I'd like to have a copy. DeanF: Jolt Cola forever! MagicFlute: If it had not been for those fans, we would have been having this meeting years ago! CliffG: name Wizardess{^_^}: Hm, I got your message as private from laire hazy: The estimate was $500,000 to complete the AAA project. Drakon: Pepsi has always been too sweet DeVoid: Scott, if I were getting a replacement wp, I'd look for the same type. Not graphic. Pagestream is for that. CarmenR: MagicFlute: Exactly. Harv: wizardess - 3 of you are sharing an account. dont /pri. you will all see each other's /pris. Furr: JWolf: Never, never, never. Even though "Coke Classic" isn't the same as the original, it still romps with boots over anything Pepsi "Treacle R Us" has ever come up with. ;-) AmiGadget: hazy, compared to how much invested, would you guess? DeVoid: half a mil? thats a lot on spec Nyx: Dale: AAA was about 1 rev away from being in pretty good shape. The big problem is still software, which by most SE Eng. estimates amounted to at least a year and a half of work. DonM: jeez. gotta quit typing and go back about 60 lines and start reading.. sigh ScottJ: DAve, Brian Jackson said AAA was designed in 1989. If CBM had wanted could it have benn in the A3000? Nyx: SW Eng, rather hazy: No idea, but it was started around 6 years ago. Harv: everyone - Nyx = Ken Dyke, he also worked at Commodore. Nyx: ScottJ: No way Drakon: n Ken ScottJ: Ken Dyke, why not? Thanks. hazy: AAA was underway in 1989, but we didn't get any chips until '92. Prolific: I read in EDN that Commodore had a 2 Meg Agnes back before the 2000 was introduced. AmiGadget: wow, a veritable electronic wake Furr: I get deja vu at seeing the name "Ken Dyke..." I have a friend named Ken DykeS.... ;-) hazy: Of course, more investment in the project would have delivered it much sooner. Nyx: ScottJ: Even if the chip guys had been given all the resources they needed, AAA would still have been a couple year project, IMHO. ScottJ: Hazy, I mean if CBM managementhad fully fnded the project. The-Nameless: What could AAA do that AGA couldn't? Harv: so how close to AAA is something like a Picasso, graphically speaking? AmiGadget: typical c= ... get something 90% complete and then drop it ScottJ: Thanks Ken. Cryo: nameless: at the moment, nothing. DrTed: So... what was Gould's and Ali's underlying business philosophy??? Harv: ted - greed DeVoid: large salaries JWolf: Furr, Coke in cans has a metalic taste to it. Furr: DrTed: *LINE* *OUR* *POCKETS!* The-Nameless: Well, assuming it could be finished . . . Mike-C: To sit on their bulbous asses and play golf between meals hazy: AAA could do most of what your high-end SVGAs can today, many things no one does right now. Furr: JWolf: Pepsi in anything has a horrible taste to it. ;-) MagicFlute: I wornder when Mr Gould will get all those millions he lent CBM at hing interest reates? Nyx: Harv: As far as resolutions goes, about the same if I remember right. But you also get to throw in MUCH higher CPU->Chip ram bandwidth, a much faster blitter, plus all the other cool Amiga stuff like copper, HAM, etc. Status from CliffG- left DrTed: Smart greedy people know that the more you sell the greedier you can get.... MagicFlute: err.. high interest raTES Harv: nyx... sigh. DrTed: or is SMART the operative failure??? hazy: Included were: higher resolutions (110MHz video, 1280x1024ni, some 24-bit modes) ScottJ: If AAA would have taken years to bring to fruition, then why does Brian Jackson keep saying the engineers thought it was obsolete , "mediocre SVGA"? Furr: MagicFlute: High interest *RATS* might be the best way to write it.... MagicFlute: hehe Cryo: who cares what Brian Jackson has to say? hazy: Up to 16MB of Chip RAM in the 64-bit system, with VRAM support. Drakon: Doc: but they ran the company into the ground, now they are going to slowly go broke The-Nameless: HAAAAAACCCCCK! MUST DAMAGE CBM EXECS! PKB: <drool> Nyx: ScottJ: Because by the time it could have been brought to market with adequate software support, it most likely would have been. :-\ hazy: 1,2, and 4MB floppies, single-speed CD-ROM (in the floppy interface) JWolf: So, Commodore had the chance tto do the Amiga right, but blew it and is now paying the price right? ScottJ: Cryo, if you were on GEnie you'd have to listen to him gloat about CBM's demise. AmiGadget: drak, not very slowly. the fit has hit the shan. Furr: I prefer the idea of a death by slow, painful poison for Gould and Ali. hazy: 8 channels of 16-bit audio, rates up to 110kHz, 8-bit audio digitizer. Nyx: ScottJ: And listen to Jim Drew talk about his AAA Emplant drivers, too. ;) Cryo: SJ: I'm not on GEnie, I'm on Portal. Furr: ScottJ: Tell him to shove it where the sun don't shine -- sideways, no lubricant. ScottJ: Thanks again, Ken. Then would any custom chip project CBM started have suffered the same fate? Drakon: hazy; you make one, I'll buy it Dale - Cozort: Did LouE's "low-end" chip ever get beyond the paper stage? Harv: hell I'll buy 3. hazy: The blitter could do math, with or without saturation, on chunky pixels. Wizard0: Speaking of Jim Drew, didn't he just by lots of C= stock because he thought they were about to be bought? He must feal bad now. Nyx: ScottJ: No, not really. AAA just never got the commitment it should have. Status from dm- joined JWolf: Yo, Dm hazy: The AA folks worked on the low-end "AA+" design, but no silicon was made. Drakon: Harv: i would too, money allowing dm: hey everyone... Cryo: wizard0: let's just avoid the Jim Drew subject altogether ;-) ted-c: Where's Lew E? Still around? The-Nameless: So CBM didn't just blow it, they BLEW ITTT! ScottJ: Harv, read his posts in csa.advocacy. Some are from him, some are slightly rewritten by others. Status from CliffG- joined JWolf: reYo, CliffG Status from EVAlien- joined JWolf: HiYa, EVAlien hazy: It wasn't significantly cheaper than a low-end AAA system, and did much less. SResources were too tight for both. DonM: whew caught up Furr: Nyx: So what would you suggest that those of us who (like me with my A3000) do if we aren't prepared to switch to some other, inferior platform? EVAlien: hiya all The-Nameless: hi guys. SkyPilot: hi AmiGadget: csa.#? - boring. dm: harv, you still have stuff to give away from Commodore? :-) Harv: dm - i have stuff but not from commodore. Nyx: Furr: Keep your Amiga, like I'm going to do. I still _like_ my A3000, and whether or not C= exists or not doesn't change that. CarmenR: Furr: Maybe the part about waving around genitals. hazy: We were on the right track in 1990. The A3000 was out, AAA was well underway. I started working on the A3000+, laire: cryo: hehe ScottJ: rwad = read. Harv: carmen, heh, no i'd leave that part in gsarff: carmen :) sorry EVAlien: sounds like I came in toooo late hazy: which brought the AA chipset and DSP3210 to the Amiga. Had the A3000+ become the A4000 in April of 1992 like we hazy: had planned, Harv: hi eva JWolf: F\\Furr, the choice is...Stay with the Amiga and pray that it gets picked up by a real company with the resources to commit to it like it deserves or get a PeeCee with a good video card and run Windows. EVAlien: Hiya hharv Furr: Nyx: Well, I was thinking about adding a Picasso II, an '040 and other such add-ons while they're still available..... Harv: I'm keeping my Amigas. I'm not buying anything else. they work. I enjoy them. EVAlien: wouldn't you know it... dinners ready.... gotta run Nyx: Furr: I like my Amiga because it's a fun machine to do programming on. I can't say the same for PC's or Mac's (in general). I'm sure Dave feels the same way. The-Nameless: What happens to third party co.s? Furr: JWolf: That latter is simply *NOT* an option. I have to use WinDoze at work, and it SUCKS. SkyPilot: Me too Harv!! AmiGadget: hazy, lemme guess the next part... "marketing" made stupid decisions about the 4000, and kaboom. hazy: momentum wouldn't have been lost. But they delayed AA for absolutely no reason (aside perhaps Sydnes' ego) for dm: hmm... I'd rather use a Mac than an IBM when I can't have an Amiga... EVAlien: Ditto what harv said ScottJ: Ken who are you working for now? 3DO? Harv: all this talk about "what should I buynow" is nonsense. buy what you need when you need something. Status from EVAlien- left hazy: about 6 months, so Christmas '92 was a disaster, since the AA systems weren't ready. This same genius Nyx: ScottJ: No, Electronic Arts. Harv: if what you have works, and you enjoy it, keepit and use it DrTed: Who is Syndes??? hazy: forced replacement of the A500 with the A600, the first time in history C= canc3elled a system that was selling well. e-man: Well folx, it's 10:30 here, and I gotta be at work at 7am. C-Ya. AmiGadget: doc, famous designer of the pc-jr Furr: Harv: If someone doesn't pick up the Amiga, the 3rd party market will slowly die out as people get "saturated" or leave the Amiga platform. Harv: bye e-man dm: far superior GUI... Wizard0: Why the hell did the 600 ever come out anyway? Harv: furr - slowly = years. The-Nameless: Bleah. hazy: The A600 had started out as the A300, a sub-A500, probably something like a C64 if it had remained on course. laire: hazy: what i always wanted to know...why did it take so long to improve OCS ?...did nobody understand the scematics left by the Los Gatos group ? Harv: there are a LOT of companies with a LOT of money sunk into Amiga support. Want me to name 50 of them? you think they're all going to throw out their amigas and buy macs and pcs on monday? Prolific: A600... PCMCIA? Furr: Harv: I've been through this before with the TRS-80; I'd rather get it now than regret not doing so later. The-Nameless: Same here Furr. I had a Model III. hazy: At the high end, you add in 6 months of delay on the A4000, another delay due to the A4091 being necessary, and AAA didn't get the system support it needed quickly enough. Status from e-man- left Harv: the 600 was a big mistake. never shudda wasted 1 minute on it. no one wanted it JWolf: Harv, companies that support the Amiga along with other platforms will simply drop Amiga development. hazy: I was the only system guy working on AAA. Furr: Nameless: I had a Model I, then a Model III, then finally a Model 4P. I then jumped to an Amiga 3000. ;-) Drakon: Furr: Yeah however there is NOTHING out there that is as good , as user freindly, as much fun or has a Toaster right now than my 3000 JWolf: Furr, I had a TRS-80 Model I. It basically dies overnight. ScottJ: Ken, any recommendations at to what platform to move to? Pentium running Windows or OS/2? Power Mac or PreP Power PC? The-Nameless: I didn;t have anything between the III and my A3000. JWolf: Furr, I had a TRS-80 Model I. It basically died overnight. Harv: wolf - take ASDG. they now support 4 platforms yet I would guess 75% of their income comes from ADPro. Furr: JWolf: No, it did not. dm: Scott-get a PowerMac - as close to Amiga as you'll get. JWolf: Harv, what does ASDG hsve for the PeeCee? Furr: dm: NOT. Nyx: ScottJ: To be perfectly honest, right now I can't think of anything. Personally, I'd like to get a PowerPC machine, but not until there is a good OS available for them, like NextStep. Harv: wolf they're doing some windows stuff Nyx: dm: NOT Drakon: Gad is anyone watching Lois and Clark? It sounds as bad as here AmiGadget: asdg does windoze? Furr: Nyx: Interestingly enough, that was my reaction as the best alternative: NeXTStep on a PowerPC box. DonM: I'm batching it this weekend, so I can eat any time I want. nyah Harv: asdg does amiga, mac, sgi and they're just starting on windows Prolific: I have got it on. No explosions at West Chester, though. hazy: It gets worse, but only slightly Nyx: dm: Not to start a flamewar or anything, but PowerMacs are just faster Mac's. The OS is identical to the 680x0 Macs. yechhchh. ScottJ: Thank, Ken. NexTStep sounds nice it it doesnt seem to have much support. Next seems to be going the way of CBM. JWolf: Harv, PeeCee does not always mean Windows. The-Nameless: Elastic Reality for Windows. Drakon: Dave, what can I say, except thanks for a wonderful machine. Harv: if you want a really nice "amiga" go spend about $20,000 on a buffed-out SGI Indy. hazy: Apple has need OS add-ons, like QuickTime, but they're way, way behind on real Othe core OS. ScottJ: Harv, too rich for my blood. dm: nyx: that's EXACTLY Aplle's mistake ri The-Nameless: I don;t think my bank would loan me $20K. SkyPilot: =m~ AmiGadget: hazy, forgive me if you answered this already.... is there any possible truth to creative electronics (miami) claim that the amigas are going to come back just fine? DonM: Is it just c= in the US that's sliding down the slippery thing or the whole shebang? Harv: don - all of it Cryo: I hear on Monday at 12pm, your Amiga will just stop working. Better get a new machine now! Before it's too late! Run for the hills! DonM: urk dm: ght now... but I heard they're working on it... ScottJ: I loved the Amiga's low cost graphics software. All the good Mac software is well over $1000. hazy: I pointed out I believe that it's possible for someone to start making Amigas again, but who knows. Prolific: Cryo... the dreaded Mehdi virus? AmiGadget: i mean, do you have lotsa geeky looking dudes from companies you never heard of peeking around to see what they're buying? JWolf: Don, C= US is where the Amiga gets developed. Without C= US, forget it. Drakon: I need to go nite all, Dave take care, keep in touch DanB: Nite Drak gsarff: bye Harv: dave always has his portal account if he loses his cbmvax account :( Drakon: I really hope you're right and the AAA machine comes out. I really hope so The-Nameless: Later Drakon. Status from Drakon- left stb: Hazy, Is all the talk about the success of the cd32 true or false- at every press release commadore says its doing terrible... dm: scott: agreed. Mac still suffers the remnants of Apple's former 'Upper Class' politics. PKB: I think GVP should take up the hardware end. Of course, the price on any one machine would double.... DeanF: heheheh Nyx: Drakon: Don't count on it. It'd take far too much work, and the expertise needed to support the chipset in the OS is long gone now. dm: laargh noisy connetion.. brb Harv: apple comes out with 10 new mac models every other week. how the hell can any half intelligent mac consumer deal with that insanity Cryo: GVP? bahaha Status from John D Short- joined Status from dm- left JWolf: HiYa, John hazy: From the viewpoint of "the Industry", 100,000 or so CD32s is a success this early upon introduction. Harv: hi john Furr: Commodore Amiga: The Computer for the Creative Mind.Apple Macintosh: The Computer for the Rest Of Us. Status from John D Short- left MagicFlute: Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my Amiga to keep... DeVoid: Just not good enuf to save a company drowning in debt hazy: From C='s point of view, they needed many, many more sold, but couldn't make them. So they deem it a failure. Status from Jodash- joined JWolf: reHi, Jodash MagicFlute: If I should die before I wake, I pray the LOrd a clone to make The-Nameless: From sharp minds come Sharp products. From dull minds come Apple products. Wizard0: hazy-didn't C= sell around 300-400,000 cd32s? Or was that figure crap? Harv: nyx - do you reckon that 3do is going to turn into a full computer (keyboard, drives, ports, etc.)? Mike-C: What, Harv..you don't wanna buy that hot new MediOcra 650 Mac? AmiGadget: magic, heh Nyx: Harv: Nope Harv: hmmm interesting. thanks Status from Cole- joined JWolf: Hey, Cole ScottJ: Rehire the old Engineering team under contract until a new one can get upto speed. Cole: hi hazy: I think they wanted to sell 400,000 Amigas. Status from dm- joined Wizardess{^_^}: Good luck on that. They are all already working elsewhere. JWolf: reHi, Dm AmiGadget: terminal death syndrome hazy: 3DO can't go beyond 320 pixels across, that's not a "real computer" these days. The-Nameless: Be Specific. laire: pkb: grrr dm: re everyone... hope Portal's second number is better right now... DeVoid: The original Greg Peck Cape Fear was a better film DonM: nyuck nyuck Nyx: hazy: It's worse than that. That's 320 for overscan. Usable screen area is about 280 pixels. Mike-C: You can always opt for the Jaguar Harv: dm - portal is adding modems as fast as they can order and install them (expensive rack mount jobbies). Furr: I think that next weekend I'm going to go to Creative Computers/Santa Monica and go on an Amiga Buying Spre. DonM: Amiga geeks fall for another rumor. :) Furr: er, SPREE, that is. dm: harv, I know.. I noticed it's MUCH better since yesterday.. JWolf: Anybody have a V.FC (fast class) modem? Status from PKB- left ScottJ: I'd really like to see someone launch a completely new computer architecture with none of the cruft that's accumulated on all the other architectures. Dale - Cozort: You know what would be neat--if 3D0picked up rights to the chipset and OS, then did the same thing with licensing it they are coing with 3DO DeanF: Wolf, don't waste yer money on them AmiGadget: jon, mine is LAST class, does that count? Harv: portal will eventually be installing a shitload of 28.8Kbps modems give them a couplemonths DrTed: I never knew that about 3DO.... Who would design a system with a 320 limited resolution??? hazy: So that's why they always look so jaggy :-). There was certainly a reason CD32 has been kicking visual butt, especially on non-games where it matters so much more. Furr: harv: Or do you think that CC will have a "fire sale" on Ami stuff that I should wait for? stb: I gotta go.... Hazy if you do not end up in the amiga line - thanks my 3000 is a beautiful machine - nite... JWolf: Harv, what would happen to Portal if the Amiga section died off? dm: anyone know anything about Commodore Germany? They just were starting to make profit. Harv: i TOLD you people 3do looked awfully jaggy up close but did anyone believe me? noooooooo laire: ScottJ: the 90s are the time of the user computer...the hacker computer area died with the Amiga and ST Harv: jon - simple. it's not going to :) CarmenR: Harv: I thought it looked fuzzy Wizard0: Portal will live on as an internet provider.. ScottJ: Laire, I know but I can hope cant I? Harv: furr - a fire sale is definitely possible. AmiGadget: yes... applause to hazy for the lovely 3000. Furr: *I* am fuzzy. the 3DO's display is just *bad*. ;-{)##] Bronx: Good night all, Good luck Dave and thanks for everything Prolific: Wow... Beverly Johnson just blew the hell out of a truck. Status from Bronx- left ScottJ: Good Job Ken & Dave. DonM: Just this weekend I've been trying to get a serial mouse to work on the BridgeBoard's multifunction card (EMC). Doesn't fucking work, of course. Typical klone operaton. grr AmiGadget: mine purrs 24 hours and has been doing so for a long time DeVoid: I love my 3000. I just wanted 3.1 so I could justify putting a Picasso in it. Harv: as far as atari jaguar - john grieggs bought one. he said "i bought ALL the available titles" i asked "how many?" he said "five." this was 2 weeks ago. laire: ScottJ: well...get a Borg...Borgs have no hope:-B ted-c: <- his 2000 is still a lovely machine also :) thanks dave The-Nameless: DeVoid: same. ScottJ: Ken, was AmigaDos 3.1 finished? Furr: Prolific: Strong lungs, eh? AmiGadget: don, make the mouse port com1, instead of com2. Mike-C: Hey..at least the Jaguar will have DOOM for it..and what more could one ask for? (chuckle) Nyx: ScottJ: Yep... Prolific: She used a BIG machine gun. dm: <---- was planning on getting an 3000 when back in Europe... Harv: 3.1 was just waiting for pkgs and manuals I think The-Nameless: I HAAAAAAAATEEEEEE it when this happens! CBM deserves to be sent to BOSNIA! Nyx: It's mainly politacl (and financial) reasons that kept it from coming out. Status from stb- left AmiGadget: com<something> is taken bythe bb itself. i forget which one, tho. ScottJ: Harv, I dont believe that "64 bit" BS the Tramiels put out. In fact I dont believe anything they say. DeVoid: Rwanda. Gould is going to Rwanda DonM: So my local klone expert tells me.. of course! don't you know that most of those 9 pin serial port thingies don't work for a mouse?... typical Furr: DeVoid: If Hell doesn't exist, Gould is reason enough to INVENT it. The-Nameless: Gould deserves a third world country. MagicFlute: Hehehe Furr! Harv: nyx - can you explainthe political part in 25 words or less? Dale - Cozort: Dave-you mentioned Ali interfering with engineering. What do you think would have happended differently in terms of machines available if he hadn't? AmiGadget: don, if the mousie doesn't work, it's a conflict of interrupts for the com port(s) 90% of the time ScottJ: Ken, how would someone go about licensing it? Is it even possible now with CBM gone? Nyx: It's sad to see Commodore go this way, but knowing how Commodore has been run over the years, it should not be a suprise to anyone here. Harv: dale - we'd all be typing on amiga 5000s by now. DrTed: I will wait a month but after that I will pickup 3.1 where ever I can... Mike-C: Hmm. I thought Irv had already moved to Haiti to become the new dictator... hazy: Well, there's 64-bit and there's 64-bit. Like 3DO, Jaguar has a underpowered CPU, only moreso, it's just a plain old 16-bit 68000. dm: don, if the mouse doesn't work, you didn't plug it in the ADB port... or something ;) AmiGadget: you can also relocate the iterrupts but you have to be a personal friend of gates to figure out the /s/f/dd/f/f/w/e/re/a/fae/fg/sdfg command to make it work Nyx: Harv: In 25 words or less? Sure. Commodore is a hardware company. Software was a necessary evil required to sell the hardware. DonM: gadg... ok, maybe that's the problem. still typical klown junk. Harv: necessary evil. sigh. Nyx: Harv: 2.0 made it out because of the A3000. 3.0 came out because it was "attached" to the A1200 and A4000. AmiGadget: don, yes, perfectly typical. predictably typical. Nyx: Likewise with 3.1 and the A4000T. hazy: They many very well have some 64-bit paths in their graphics chips, but the real test is just what the thing can do, not any specific datapath width. DonM: I was going to check into the IBM chat. I was late and they had already closed up. ScottJ: Like I've been saying. Someone ought to write a book about CBM. How about you Ken? Prolific: If the Jaguar and 3DO are using a 68000, where does the 64-bits come in? Nyx: hazyy: The Jag actually does have a real risc cpu besides the 68000. The 68k reads joysticks. SkyPilot: yZ} Nyx: ScottJ: No thanks. hazy: Without Ali, no Sydnes. Without Sydnes, we have A3000+ (probably labelled A4000) out 6 months before the A4000 we actually did. DeVoid: thanks Dave The-Nameless: Anyone remember the atari 800? Seem familiar? Wizard0: Nyx: All current jag games use the 68000 as the cpu ScottJ: Ken, but the RISC CPU can only access 2k of memory. What good it that? DonM: gadg.. what is that /s/f/dd.... in reference to? what dos command? AmiGadget: scottj, i tol' ya i'd write it. no problem. Status from DeVoid- left MagicFlute: Harv: when & where will the transcript be avalable... AmiGadget: i can have it ready for you to distribute to supermarkets in october, easy MagicFlute: I better get to bed soon! Mike-C: Hrm. Maybe I'll go play some DOOM to release pent-up hostility... Harv: flute - gimme a couple days to edit this thing. hazy: Built-in SCSI in the A3000+, so no need for the A4091. So I'm a year ahead alewady on the system stuff for AAA machines. MagicFlute: Thanks, Harv DanB: Dave, you may have 'splained this earlier, but what is Sydnes? Nyx: Wizard0: All I know is thatmy Jag is able to throw lots of stuff around the screen in pretty neat ways. IMHO it's more impressive than the 3DO. AmiGadget: don, that's a fictitious one. the command is extremely arcane. "read your <expletive deleted> dos manual" dm: nyx, that's cause it's newer... DrTed: Was it this Sydnes guy that put the IDE in the 4000's??? AmiGadget: i recommend relocating the number first... a MILLION times easier. Wizardess{^_^}: Sydnes is the worst disease to hit Commodore since day one for Amiga. Wizardess{^_^}: yes hazy: With an extra six months of production, AA is mature for Christmas '92, so lots of A1200s and A4000s get out. This very well could have eliminate d the big-time losses of '93 and '94. AmiGadget: change com1 to com2 - probly jumpers or dips on the board DonM: gadge.. that's what i was doing last night. Don't know any command nor did i see one that has to do with moving interrupts around. hazy: Sydnes replaced Henri Rubin as head of Engineering. Under Henri and Jeff Porter, we did the A500, A2000, A2500, and A3000. Wizard0: Ugh.. Pentium commercial on tv now... Harv: donm - send email to ctuna. he's the ibm sysop here. he lives that stuff Mike: Thanks Ken & Dave. Nite all. Cryo: hey.. now. The-Nameless: later mike. Nyx: Bye Mike AmiGadget: all of the boards and i/o ports have "interrupt" addresses. stupid low-tech junk. ScottJ: Dave, Ken. Why was Sydnes hired in the 1st place? Ws he a pal of Ali or Gould? DeanF: there is no MSDOS command for interrupts, it's done with jumpers or dip switches on the hardware, or thru custom software supplied with the board DanB: Oh. Thanks, Dave Status from Mike- left DanB: Sounds like a really nice guy...maybe Apple should hire him. Harv: 35 people here Furr: DanB: GRIN! The-Nameless: Oh great. Then we'd all be using PCs. DanB: heh dm: how many are here usually? laire: DanB: Apple will release new 040LC system with IDE instead of SCSI...he must be there already:-B Nyx: ScottJ: I beleive the deal was that he promised Mehdi that he could buyi MagicFlute: I make my money programing PeeCees at work.. Nyx: oops DonM: ok, thanks dean, gadg... I misread what gadg said, i guess. Harv: dm - anywhere from 10 to 40, 7 nites a week MagicFlute: but the Amiga was my catharsis.. AmiGadget: that's the exact hex address where the stupid lowtech piece of crap looks to find the board, port, etc. you can change where these are mapped (lotsa networks are picky picky about their addresses), generally with jumpers Cryo: and just what's wrong with using PCs? hazy: Made no sense to me. I guess Ali, knowing less than nothing about the computer biz, thought an IBM vet would make Engineering "more professional ". Management was without a clue, period. DanB: laire: heh DrTed: For my BB, I use the Amouse.drv with the BB mouse in mouse port 2... works great... MagicFlute: Thanks Dave for giving us a great computer.. dm: Apple WILL NOT , EVER release stuff with only IDE. Nyx: ScottJ: I think the deal was that he promised Mehdi that he could build a cheaper A500 (i.e. the A300 which eventually became the A600). Harv: dave - that's truly pathetic. :( AmiGadget: look at the mode command, too. it controls how the machine honors the com and lpt ports MagicFlute: and now I say good nite... getting toodepressed... Nite ALL! Harv: nite mr. flute The-Nameless: PC is old architecture. Something more adapted to "user friendliness" would be better. DanB: Yes, Dave...thanks for a whole buncha relly cool computers (even if I coulden DeanF: mode command can be used to change baud rate, stop bit, etc, stuff like what you would set in a terminal program DanB: 't keep up:) Status from MagicFlute- left laire: would really like to see the A2200 with ECS....perhaps they sell some when the stocks are cleared in germany AmiGadget: a school here has 2 A1000's, 3 A500's and 1 A600, and they work fine. the teacher has no prob with any of them. Harv: suddenly i was admiring the view from one of the moons of the planet mongo Cryo: someone kill him if he says it again. AmiGadget: of course, they NEVER buy any expansion stuff Status from DeanF- joined Mike-C: Hmm. Well, I suppose I should be moseying along..or was that ambling? I can never remember DeanF: damn Harv: mike, a pleasure as usul Status from Wizard0- joined Wizard0: rehi AmiGadget: the high school down the street has 1 A2000 with toaster, 9 A500's, and 5 A1200's Status from DrTed- joined Status from dm- joined Mike-C: <waves so long...whisking his quiet self away> Furr: One odd question -- can a High Density floppy drive from an A4000 work in an A3000? DeanF: bye Mike DrTed: So.... how many others got dumped that time??? HAWK: How can you kill something allready dead! DeanF: I did Ted Harv: nyx did you get my pri msg? DrTed: JPortal hiccup... Status from Mike-C- left hazy: Yes, the HD floppy works on all Amigas, assuming the OS knows about that drive type. Nyx: Harv: Uhh, dunno. Status from JWolf- joined JWolf: Hi! The-Nameless, Dale, Laire, KyleW, Ted-c, Wiz , HAWK, DeanF, Cole, Dan, Glenn, Rabel1, Dm, CliffG, DrTed, CarmenR, Nyx, Gsarff, Jay, Wizardess{=, Hazy, Sky, Furr, Don, Scott! AmiGadget: jon! JWolf: reGreetings, Don AmiGadget: jon's macro! DrTed: For HD floppies you have to insert a patch in the s-s to allow formating ... DonM: cripes Status from The-Nameless- joined JWolf: reHey, The-Nameless JWolf: I'm on twice because of a lockup with Portal. Status from Wizard0- left Status from ScottJ- joined JWolf: reGreetings, Scott Status from DanB- joined The-Nameless: Mine just locked up as well. Rehi folks. JWolf: reHey, Dan Furr: Well, since I'm running 2.1 I should be able to use the HD floppy. I'll have to pick up a couple. ;-) DonM: brag brag AmiGadget: furr, i have an hd floppy sold by dkb. it works. JWolf: I wasn't dumped. Just froze up. The-Nameless: dm> where from? Status from KyleW- joined JWolf: reHi, KyleW DonM: that was an odd one Harv: nyx - I can intercede if you don't get satisfaction but you need to let me kknow. my # is 310.378.6746 The-Nameless: rehi kyle. DeanF: Wolf, yeah, that's what happened here Status from gsarff- joined JWolf: reGreetings, Gsarff gsarff: hi Status from Glenn-EWS- left gsarff: intenet locked up or something then died. waaaaaah! JWolf: <<====playing the Philadelphia soundtrack. The-Nameless: Boulder Creek here. Harv: portal is gettng a LOT of new business lately and they're understaffed. The-Nameless: Harv> no kidding. DonM: dean, gadg.... I played with mode. no joy. Does the mouse driver care about baud rate, parity, etc? seems like it would set up it's own, but nothing seems to change. gsarff: must be a conspiracy becuase we were saying bad things about Ali AmiGadget: lot of new business? they must be happy bout that dm: and their computer is too slow sometimes too.... JWolf: I saw a rare item today. I saw the new Pink Floyd release on vynal going for $1 more then the CD. Status from Amiga2- joined JWolf: Greetings, Amiga2 The-Nameless: DonM: that was the last thing I saw last time. Harv: dm - portal is quite a few computers. about 30 Sun Sparcstations actually gsarff: jwolf, weird. you mean like those old round black things our parents used to have? DeanF: Don, mouse driver should override baud or whatever if it needs to...your main problem is probably the interrupt Wizardess{^_^}: Same two I got I think. dm: harv: i realize that... it seems it always is the one{A7?R I'm on that's SSSLLLLLOOWWWIIiNNNGGGG down.... hazy: Maybe they did one of those "collector LPs" which seem to be getting popular. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and probably every other band from Seattle seeme to do have done this lately. gsarff: portal needs an ad in wired or something, delphi going around saying they practically invented internet connections. bah JWolf: Gsarff, yes, a real vynal LP. I thought they stopped making them except for audiophile ones. dm: and sometimes it gives garbage :) The-Nameless: Delphi? What's that? ;) Harv: delphi's ads tell some lies. AmiGadget: dave, mind a techie qvestion bout now? Furr: Well, time for me to go.... Status from Prolific- joined JWolf: Yo, Prolific Status from Furr- left JWolf: Dave, this was an ordinary LP going for $12.88. And the CD was going for $11.88. hazy: G'head The-Nameless: Greetings comrade Prolific. Harv: btw, wired is going to put ascii versions of their magazine on wired.com soon Wizardess{^_^}: Semi-serious.... It is not a UNIX prompt INTERNET we sell. But we do sell pretty good Internet access including NN, gopher, www, etc. Prolific: Did anyone see what I was typing while I didn't see anything echoes back? gsarff: none of hte music stores I go to have any vinyl at all. I was looking for an old rolling stones one because I like Gimme Shelter and hate all the other songs on the album and did not want to by the CD. could find no Wizardess{^_^}: Careful how you phrase that "lies." gsarff: vinyl at all, anywhere, it is just gone DeanF: Don, also check your docs for the mouse driver, most mouse driver software assumes you are on com1, there may be a software switch you have to add in config.sys or autoexec.bat to force it to use com2 hazy: I got the new floyd for $9-something at Circuit City the other day. The-Nameless: Notice how CBM is no longer the topic? DonM: dean... ok that fits. actually there does seem to be an interrupt problem with the other port on the card. Com1's IRQ is 4. that's the one i'm trying to use. It gets reported by checker and the mouse s/w. Com3 is sposed to be 10, b Harv: wizardess - "the only online service will full internet access", i would put that in the bin with the "lies" label on it The-Nameless: Conspiracy, or coincidence? Cryo: nameless: right. We've accepted the death, we've gone on.. KyleW: Prolific- are you in chat mode? AmiGadget: thanks! what would you check in a 3000 (it took a lightning bolt) that boots fine, works from cli fine, all ports and buss check fine, but when you click a wbench icon, freezes up. every time. Status from CarmenR- joined JWolf: reHiYa, CarmenR CarmenR: Hmm.. Thatwas weird. Prolific: Yes, I am in chat mode (do you think I type this fast?) The-Nameless: Rehi carmen. DonM: sposed to be 10 but nothing seems to know it. Harv: I just bought two mobile fidelity gold original master CDs. $30 each. CarmenR: Thanks Name AmiGadget: it's had its 8520's denice, paula, and all line drivers replaced already Status from Rabel1- joined JWolf: reGreetings, Rabel1 Cole: Hazy, did you get a chance to see floyd in concert this time (or are Rabel1: re DeanF: Don, you are trying to use Com3 for the mouse? Cole: they comming to your neck of the woods)? The-Nameless: rehi rerabel. DrTed: Don, why are you not using the Amouse driver with the second mouse in Amiga mouse port 2??? JWolf: Harv, which CDs did you buy? DanB: Jay: good thing it wasn't a Mac...can't run anything from IT'S CLI. Harv: jon - i bought traffic "mr. fantasy" and cream "disraeli gears." ted-c: =J8G<Vs+Uf)kPq5Qxj(+Q;>vprR}n.N%Mtv z JTcDe#H>qI]lP9ys)C.Hd`pC-kbEOjT^9A CuIt=3H<iyI + Mm6o[eciHKFn+j.}:E^:2U;XTW:CUcz'Gc;K`*i7$eK F^c dm: .|K[z??` hazy: Zapped A3000- I think I replied to that on internet. CarmenR: Hmm. Rabel1: bye Ted! Nyx: hazy: Did you follow the Multiprocessing 060 thread in c.s.a.e? ;) The-Nameless: ted-c: Huh? Wizardess{^_^}: Geshundheidt Harv! gsarff: com1, com2 com3, IRQ 2 IRQ 5, Mem Address D000H, sigh. the language of pc's and any board you buy to put in them AmiGadget: the current thinking is maybe gary, maybe odd version of paula ScottJ: Harv, do you know how to get in touch with the CSM guys? They should at least come online to say that the buyout effort failed. Harv: that was ted's garbage not mine gsarff: bye ted! :) Cryo: [mops up ted-c] dm: btk... had to set up the VCR to tape Bundies... :) CarmenR: D00H! Bart! Harv: scott - send email here to "marcr" Wizardess{^_^}: Ah hazy: No, didn't. Was that the Jim Drew thing? DonM: dean.. no. COM1 is the one. the mouse s/w defaults to it. AmiGadget: it's a soft kickstart machine Status from Robert-CCN- joined JWolf: Greetings, Robert Harv: hi robt Nyx: hazy: Yeah. Robert-CCN: howdy. The-Nameless: yo 'bert. Harv: scott that is marc rifkin one of the csm guys DeanF: Don, ok DonM: it's the one with the 9 pin connector, though. Cryo: Jim Drew has left the plant. Cryo: et Status from dm- left Robert-CCN: Billc! Status from dm- joined JWolf: reGreetings, Dm Nyx: hazy: I'd like to see him just try and FIT 4 060's on a CPU card, long with 256Mb of RAM. ;) Cryo: robert: took cdromreq out.. crashes my machine. The-Nameless: Motorola still working on the '060? DonM: DrTed... Amouse has a problem with 640x480 screens and I'm sick and tired of it. dm: re re re re re (last few times and next few times... seem to have trouble with my system tonight...) Robert-CCN: Cryo, yeah it did mine too. I'll have a new one soon... hazy: Maybe if they made a TAB package, but I don't believe they have considere d it. You would need parts on both sides. AmiGadget: o... the machine actually WORKED with one of its 74xxxx chips busted in HALF - only from cli, tho Nyx: hazy: Besides of course the OS problems he'd have to deal with. hazy: I think Harv's heard from Jim before. DeanF: Don, in addition to interrupts, you have to watch for memory conflicts.. .the Bridgeboard steals some pc memory areas for it's own use, the add on card may be trying to use the same area... Harv: :) JWolf: Harv, I have an original Disrali Gears on LP. DeanF: ...see if the add on card has jumper or dip switches to change what hex address it uses hazy: You mean, like lack of any support whatsoever for SMP. Yeah, might be a tiny problem there. Wizardess{^_^}: We ALL have. {^_-} DonM: drted... amouse will only cover an area 640x400. ... My ver. 1.7 does that, anyway. DrTed: Don, I was using Amouse with 640x480 NI and it worked much better than native clone mice in Windoze... Harv: jon, so do I. Wizardess{^_^}: (Heard from JD...) Rabel1: I still have an A500 with a 1-meg Agnus with two missing pins (which I replaced with bent-in-half staples) :-) dm: is THAT A smiley?? what does it mean? AmiGadget: nyx, i'd like to see him fit any of that into my wallet. Nyx: hazy: Well, he's claiming he's gonna fix everything with a magic SetPatch. We'll see. ;) gsarff: a.c.clarke, the author of 2001, the inventor of the communication satellite, visioinary and investigator of the mysteries of this and other worlds. DanB: Oops...after midnight... Wizardess{^_^}: {^_-} <- looks like what it is - a wink. Harv: dm.. kinda a little face thingie DonM: don't have windows. using amouse.com not the amouse.drv or whatever. Harv: a wink (o)(-) DanB: Dave: Thanks for coming tonight, and thanks for the neat 3000! hazy: You could pretty easily set it up to run AmigaOS on one, keep the others around for custom use. Wizardess{^_^}: We each look different, don't we, Harv. Harv: (O)(O) DeanF: o\/o dm: harv: that smiley just looks to me like - i dunno - one-eyed guy with toupet, right-handed nose and double chin.. or something like that... Cryo: ;-) <- No, that's a wink dammit hazy: Back when I was trying to the Gemini project going, Sinz was pretty sure we could run task on other CPUs with some restrictions. Nyx: hazy: Sure....but I don't know how practical it would be in the end if you have to recompile stuff to use it. Might was well use R4400's in that case. Harv: dm you have an extremely vivid imagination or, share whatever you're smoking The-Nameless: Wizardess: I hate to tell you this, but um, yer sideways. ScottJ: Ken, Dave. Would there be any changed needed to run AmigaDos on the 060? dm: ;) that's a short-handed wink... DonM: Dean... the only shared mem i know is that D000-Dfff area. What else should I look for? the port address isn't near there. Prolific: <<<<===== Ah, well, I am out of here. Thanks for all the info and rumors. Nyx: ScottJ: Yes, a 68060.library will need to be written. hazy: You'd need some extra trap handlers for the newly missing instructions. Harv: <---pining for an 060 card. sigh Harv: nite jeff DanB: I'm outta here. Nitol Harv: nite dan The-Nameless: later dan. dm: at the moment I guess my brain is smoking due to severe depression... Status from DanB- left Wizardess{^_^}: I got into the (^_^) or {^_^} or [^_^] sorta habit for sig in another media entirely. I carried it over. ([^_^] was for my A2000 which felt "male" to me. etc etc.) Robert-CCN: Hazy, I recently bought a 3640 from the net. Ploped it in my 3000 (I put a CPU fan on it), but all I get is a black screen, no startup sequence. What am I missing? I have no idea what jumpers need to be set.. Status from Prolific- left Harv: ah yes. depression. yes, we is all rather depressed. DeanF: Don, dunno, the BB manual isn't much help in that area, you might want to try a different hex address if the add in card allows for it... Nyx: Nyx: Fortunately the 060 is close enough to the 040 that the system should make it far enough along for SetPatch to run and install the 060 math code and other stuff. Cryo: if you're depressed over your computer, you should get a new hobby. The-Nameless: smoking's bad for you. Jocelyn Elders might talk to you. Status from CarmenR- left hazy: Motorola has a very active plan for the '060, include various versions, going as low as $150 on release (in quantity). Status from ted-c- joined JWolf: reHiYa, Ted-c JWolf: I'm outta here. Gotta get ready for work. Wizardess{^_^}: That was some sneeze ted-c/ JWolf: And then off to bed. The-Nameless: i'll belive it (about '060) when I see it. dm: rererere for the next coupla people... DeanF: ..or get MSDOS 6.x and run the diagnostics program to see what is being used Rabel1: LAter JWolf Cryo: in 50k quantity. hazy: The '060 should be as fast as the Pentium on a clock for clock basis, but they're only announced up to 66MHz. ted-c: later wolf ScottJ: {Dave, Ken so would it be possible of a 3rd perty company to write the 060.library? Cryo: A PEntium can't run RoboCity ;-) Nyx: I think the chances of seeing an 060 board are quite good, IMHO. hazy: Never plug a CPU module in before you know which jumpers to set, it could harm you system, at least if left on for awhile. Harv: nyx really? from whom? dm: BTW, does this mean Aplle's the onl??`y one to use Motorola chips now???? DonM: DeanF, AmiGadget, and anybody else that'll sit still.... Here I am, having to do the same kind of hacking that I used to have to do on the old Exidy Sorcerer/CP/M machines. ... Nyx: ScottJ: Sure. AmiGadget: harv, i got a newsrelease from a.s.s - that place in dallas - promising an 060 accelerator ScottJ: The 060 should be cheaper than the 040, right? DonM: which I stopped doing when I got the amiga. DonM: grrrr DeanF: hehehe AmiGadget: don, that's cause you still have the same basic technology. hazy: For the A3000 and A3640, you need OS in ROM, put J100 to the alternate position, J104 to its other extreme. dm: M|That would be BAD for Motorola... hope at leat THEY'll survive... Nyx: Harv: I'm helping out on the software support for an 060 board that's in development. Robert-CCN: Once I got the black screen I turned it off. I'm using it now without the 3640 of course. No problems, at least for the past weekend. What jumpers do I need to fiddle with? Harv: i need an 060. I want Forge to update its window in real time :) The-Nameless: Time to cyberlynch somebody from CBM's upper execs. ted-c: Ken, available for the A2000? Robert-CCN: I have 2.x in ROM. ScottJ: Ken, that's great. Can you tell us who's making it? Nyx: ted: Prolly A3000/A4000. Harv: sigh. 2500 here. DrTed: What is a 3640???? Robert-CCN: J100 and J104 are where and for what? hazy: I also recommend the "shunt block" that replaces a socketed 7408, though if heat weren't a problem in the A3000 you probably would not need this. Robert-CCN: Any jumpers on the 3640 also? Harv: If I canfind a 3000 new, dirt cheap, I'll snatch it up ScottJ: DrTed, that's the 040 card used in the A4000. ted-c: let me know if ya find 2, Harv. I'll get the other one. dm: i'd take one too... The-Nameless: Harv: where ya likely to post this stuff? Harv: I might have news on $25,000 worth of new Amiga gear for sale tomorrow. a guy I know thru smeone else allegedly just bought out dealer stock. ScottJ: Read csa.marketplace. A lot of people are dumping their systems. Nyx: ScottJ: Macrosystems U.S. Same guys who did the Warp Engine. Harv: nameless - new uploads Wizardess{^_^}: Dunno 'bout 3000 but check Creative re 4000s. They MAY be holding a fire sale once Frank sorts things out/ The-Nameless: thanks. Nyx: OOps, Macrosystems Development Cryo: heh Harv: baudman is moving to kentucky to work for macrosystems I think ScottJ: Any idea on the price of the board, Ken? Also do you mind if I post the 060 accelerator board news to Internet and GEnie? Cryo: uh, macrosystems US/development is in Michigan Harv: wait.. who's in kentucky then? ted-c: Expert people (Picasso) in Kentucky Nyx: ScottJ: No idea on prices/dates yet. DeanF: Colonel Sanders Cryo: uh, Federal Express? Harv: sigh Harv: well greg is moving to kentucky to work for [x] ScottJ: Wizardess, did Creative buy up the remaining stock of A4000's? Wizardess{^_^}: They have several in stock. The-Nameless: well, gotta go folks. dm: awright... getting too depressed, thus exiting... AmiGadget: o kentucky is a purrrrrrrrrty place Cryo: Scott, I'm sure I'll mention it there when I get the proto up. Wizardess{^_^}: They MAY decide they are "more" rather than less valuable since they have several TOasters in stock too. dm: night T~all.... Nyx: ScottJ: It may be a little premature to go announcing things yet to the world, as it will be a while before 060 production is in full swing. Harv: I remember visiting Frank (Creative)in 1987 to buy digipaint from him when he started creative out of his living room in marina del rey. Status from dm- left Wizardess{^_^}: And Toasters continue to be a great deal of bang per buck. Status from The-Nameless- left Wizardess{^_^}: So I dunno WHAT Frank will decide to do. DrTed: I did like driving through the Cumberland gap... Wizardess{^_^}: It will pay to keep ear to ground. gsarff: kentucky is very humid in the summer :) DeanF: a moose once bit my sister DonM: anyway, there's no choice for changing the port address. just switch ports and interrupts. ... hazy: Beer break, back in a sec. AmiGadget: actually, i operated my toaster during this chat, and it dished up a toasted chicken sammich. i hadda add the chicken. ScottJ: Cryo, are you the one doing the 060 board? Cryo: dean, did she bit him back? Wizardess{^_^}: Where'd you buy your first Amiga Harv? Status from Robert-CCN- joined DeanF: no, moose bites can be nasty Robert-CCN: damn... internet lag and dropped. Hazy, I think I missed part of your reply. Harv: joanne - i bought it down in orange county near disneyland at a shop on katella whose name I forgot. on 10/7/85 Cryo: SJ: yeh. Did the Warp Engine too.. but this isn't the place to discuss it. DrTed: Didn't you tell your sister that mooses are very unfriendly... Robert-CCN: Are J100 and J104 the only jumpers? Anything on the 3640? What do those two do? AmiGadget: cryo, for a.s.s. ? Harv: oh wait... computer junction or something like that. gsarff: well my capture has been ruined. :( DeanF: then she got bit by Ralph the Wonder Llama Wizardess{^_^}: Prolly long gone. I bought mine in Granada Hills. Nyx: Robert: There's aren't any user-configurable jumpers on the 3640 board itself. DonM: port 1 can be com1, 3 or 4 and port 2 can be 2, 3 or 4. you can swap irq 4 and 10 between port 1 and 2. and that's it. Cryo: ami: hell no. last thing I did for those people was the Nexus controller . ScottJ: Cryo, are you the same Cryo as Cryogenic Communications? AmiGadget: o i c Robert-CCN: Nyx, yes there are. There was a Map Rom jumper for enable/disable. Harv: the first 1000s didn't have a UL sticker on them so they couldn't be sold in l.a. county, but in orange county they could. Cryo: SJ: no. AmiGadget: so, i was right. cry oh Nyx: Roberts: oops, forgot about that one. ;) Leave that one enabled. ;) DeanF: Don, 4 and 10??? defaults for pc's are that com1 is IRQ4 and com2 is IRQ3 Robert-CCN: If it's got a jumper on it, it's user configurable. :-) DrTed: And you forgot to tell your sister to blow gently into a llama's nose as a form of greeting... ScottJ: I thought you were the same company that has split off from PP&S. Harv: and the salesguy had to convince me to spring another $300 for the 256k nosepiece. I didn't think I'd need it. heh Wizardess{^_^}: When did you get yours? I got mine in LACounty Nov 2 '85. Robert-CCN: So what's J100 and J104 for? I might have did those already, but got nothing... I only remember the jumpers I swtiched by name not number. AmiGadget: "split off" is an odd term for that Cryo: robert: one of those transforms space and time, so be careful. Harv: I bought it on 10/7/85 Robert-CCN: Yikes! gsarff: llamas are mean, they can spit like camels, and they bite. we have some hare-krishnas that raise llamas and give llama rides Cryo: SJ: no, Cryogenic Software existed long before PP&S, and long after too ; - ) Nyx: Robert: I know the jumpers by name. CPU Clock should be set to Internal. Quad Clock and Board Clock should both be set to External. Wizardess{^_^}: Yoiks - beat me a month ya did! Harv: heh Harv: figuring out AmigaDOS withno manual was lots of fun. AmiGadget: cryo: "and long after, too" HA! DonM: Dean... dunno. It's EMC's Multifunction board. Dave Cinege. 4 and 10 is what it sez here. Wizardess{^_^}: I dithered re ST vs Amiga based on my <cough. GridOS experience . (Crash OS.) gsarff: I bought mine on 10/8/85 I think AmiGadget: gloat gloat DeanF: Don...never heard of it Harv: I used my 1701 monitor for like a year cuz the 1080 was about $600 and I couldnt afford it Robert-CCN: Ok.. I'll try that tommorrow night. The only thing I tried was moving whatever I saw to External, but I still got the black screen. Wizardess{^_^}: (It was an 8086 based multitasker window/gui *thing* that was crash city if you looked at it crosseyed. Had some good basic ideas, though. Just MSIERABLE implementation.) ScottJ: Cryo, so you were the guys who worked for PP&S and wrote 3D Professiona l? AmiGadget: ding! Harv: ah 3D Pro. wanna buy one? lovely box. Nyx: Robert: Don't put the CPU clock on external, as it'll try rtunning the 030 at 50Mhz. Bad news. ;) Cryo: SJ: yes. Robert-CCN: Yow! ScottJ: Wizardess, say it isnt so. You buying an ST? DonM: has the Oak Oti 077 vga, 2 serial 1 parallel, IDE and game. only thing tried is VGA (of cuss) and just yesterday, the serial. Robert-CCN: Well, I guess everythings okay so far... The local tech dudes and no idea what to do with the jumpers. Harv: I was this ][ close to buying a Mac when I saw an Amiga brochure and fell in love. Robert-CCN: and=had Wizardess{^_^}: Almost did. Looked like a more stable bet. Then I finally decided "NOT TRAMIEL! NEVER AGAIN!" ScottJ: Cryo, so what happened to the new 3D renderer you were writing for the Amiga? Robert-CCN: They didn't even no you could put a C3640 in a 3000. AmiGadget: donm, why not use the amiga mousie - it does that, y'know Nyx: Robert-CCN: Well, running an 040 without a heat sink isn't a very good idea. Robert-CCN: Harv, just think where you'd be if you never saw that brochure. Cryo: SJ: became too saturated of a market. Lightwave won. Game over. Wizardess{^_^}: Speaking of PClone and Amiga mouse has anyone ported amouse to OS/2? DrTed: Don, that is the same multi board I use with my BB. Still the Amouse worked great on windows and dosshell... Wizardess{^_^}: (It'd save Loren some effort maybe.) hazy: It's never going to try running the '030 at 50MHz. The '040 board supplies what becomes CLK90 and Robert-CCN: Nyx, I was able to get a CPU FAN mounted on it, works great. It's got a tiny heat sink with a fan pointed at it. ScottJ: Cryo, did you ever finish the code? I heard you sold it to RCS management. Nyx: hazy: Hrmm...weird. Whenever I forgot and set that jumper wrong, the 030 got REALLY hot. hazy: CPUCLK on the motherboard. These are set external for proper operation. The other jumper is gsarff: make french fries on it., DonM: Gadget... because It does funny things to certain types of screens. It seems to be the ones that are 640x480. It only goes to the x400 point, and if it's a certain type, messes up the menus, etc. Cryo: SJ: no, what was left of PP&S sold the code to RCS for their renderer. We never saw anything from it. DrTed: And I was able to use both serial ports (drive a HP plotter and a three wire hookup to a scanner and printer on LPT2:.... hazy: going to feed the on-board CPU itself, and it really doesn't matter in a 25MHz system which way KyleW: well is it time to run out and buy up all the custum chips we can before the "horders" get there?? ScottJ: KyleW, Yep. AmiGadget: don, o. ok. hazy: it is set. For a 16MHz system, it's important to keep the motherboard CPU at 16MHz when adding a 25MHz '040. Robert-CCN: Hazy, so just those two jumpers then? What do I do, if I still get the black screen? The sympton was a black screen, no other colors or disk activity. Although when I did a reset, the keyboard caps light blinked once. DonM: drted... the windows driver type mouse might work. dunno. don't have windows. Nyx: Robert: Well, make sure thr ROMS aren't in backwards. Make sure the system will boot with just an 030 to make sure. Cryo: robert: never question Hazy. Just do as he says, and the world will fall into place. Wizardess{^_^}: Pray the ROMs are not in backwards.... Harv: heh Robert-CCN: I'm using the system now. I haven't done anything with the ROMS. AmiGadget: backwards, or swapped left for right - neither way is productive. DrTed: I am not talking about the MSDOS windows driver I am talking about the Janus Amouse.com.... hazy: If you set it up correctly and the '040 doesn't work, something is broken. Could be a zillion things. If you can, try the '040 in another system. Nyx: Robert: And you have V37 in ROM, right? ScottJ: Cryo, I remember you stating in a post on Usenet that your new renderer was completely new so you didnt owe PP&S anything. Given your tale of woe with them why would you do business with them ever again? Wizardess{^_^}: (If they are they are toast. - crispy critters.) DrTed: It sometimes would not load on system turn-on but rebooting the BB would solve that... Nyx: Robert (i.e., you don't load kickstart from your boot partition) DonM: There are a number of share/freeware type programs that do this. and of course i can't remember the name of a single one right now! of course. Cryo: SJ: dude, get a clue.. PP&S, PPI or whatever they were before they died, aren't around anymore ;-) AmiGadget: cryo, i thought pps was still claiming not to be belly up yet. Harv: robert has a history of uh... well.. frying his hardware. Robert-CCN: Nyx, nope. I've got the non disk ROMS (for leack of a better word). gsarff: he does? Robert-CCN: Harv, me? Nyx: Robert: Okay, just making sure. ;) Robert-CCN: Errr. I did do one thing... :-) Harv: robert - or did I dream about you frying a hard disk a month ago and thinking about suicide? Wizardess{^_^}: Harv - I'm gonna have to go. Thanks for the guest pass. Robert-CCN: I pulled the 040 chip out during installation of the CPU FAN, I had to try a number of different things before I got one to work. I'm pretty positive I put it back the right way. :-) ScottJ: Cryo, I figured they were dead but I just wondered why you would have anything to do with them. Wizardess{^_^}: (Loren is getting hungry. {^_-}) Harv: okay wiz... enjoyed havin ya here tonite. Rabel1: Goodbye Wizardess! DeanF: g'nite Joanne Harv: take care Wizardess{^_^}: EEK - toasty 040 chip? Ickipoo! HAWK: don't you have to have 2.04 roms in a 16 htz system fot the 040 card to work ?? ScottJ: Joanne, how long before BIX closes its Amiga section? hazy: You probably only get one chance. ted-c: goodnite wizardess Wizardess{^_^}: Good luck with it - and Bye all! Wizardess{^_^}: LONG time/ ScottJ: Night, Joanne. Cryo: SJ: a long story that is best left in the past. Hopping down memory lane is nice and all, but the Amiga market hasn't exactly been great. Harv: scott - would you like to buy some Tact? well sell it in handy 3 lb. family size boxes Wizardess{^_^}: The Amiga Exchange is needed by its members NOW more than ever before. We plan to stick around and offer all the help we can. Robert-CCN: At least I didn't smell anything. I took GREAT care in noting the pin 1 marking and where it went. I figured it would be a pretty picture if I messed up. Robert-CCN: would=woudln't DonM: Drted... sir... I bet i have something funny about my janus. the Amouse is 1.7. janus is what? 2.1 is the latest, right? Well, I have a problem with the linked drives as well. they can only be 33 megs or I get a big mess. ... Wizardess{^_^}: (And if I can SOMEHOW negotiate legal release of some of the developer materials I am setup to do it. But that will be a LONG row to hoe.) DonM: I bet something in my s/w is the wrong version. Wizardess{^_^}: Now I do have to go. Bye y'awl! Harv: chow Status from Wizardess{^_^}- left AmiGadget: donm, now you know why i unloaded my bilgecard before i even put it in the machine Robert-CCN: I sure wish It didn't require pulling practically everything out to get to that slot. Robert-CCN: I've got all 4 expansion slots full, boards were flying everywhere. hazy: In the A5000 you'd just need to remove the casetop to change the CPU card. AssuOf course, never got that far, but the plan was there since 1990 or so. Robert-CCN: When will the capture of this conf be available? :-) AmiGadget: "dis" covered ? Harv: robert, in 1999 after I finished editing it ted-c: It's now morning fer me, so good morning to y'all and see you later tonight! Harv: nite ted Rabel1: LAter Ted DeanF: bye Ted DonM: nite ted HAWK: nite ted Cole: bye, ted gsarff: bye ScottJ: Dave, any idea as to what you are going to be working on next? A computer or a video game machine? Harv: robt - i uploaded all 40 jumpdisk pdq disks this weekend into a new library ted-c: sticking around for answer to Scott's ? Rabel1: Thanks Harv! Harv: rabel, yer welcome :) AmiGadget: harv, ducky! DonM: humph... oughta try to talk drted into sending me copies of his janus disks. grump Robert-CCN: I've got a few on my sys, some guy always uploads them to my sys as soon as he gets them. hazy: Don't know exactly what I'll be working on next, there are several possibilities. Harv: jumpdisk sent me all 40 of them ScottJ: Thanks Dave. Can you give us any hints? Robert-CCN: Hazy, maybe you can start your own company build Amiga clones and other goodies. :-) DrTed: DonM... Just checked, My Amouse is version 1.7... also... Nyx: Well people, I'm gonna take off. Got some work to do tonight. Later! DeanF: bye Ken ScottJ: Night, Ken. gsarff: "Extra-Terrestrials From Venus Gave Me Herpes" Claims Ronald Reagan. AmiGadget: amiga clones. now there's a thought Harv: ken, nice having you here tonite. lemme know if I can help ya later Rabel1: Harv: Jumpdisk isn't going to stop making his disks is he? gsarff: bye Nyx: Harv: Will do DonM: drted... i have something odd going on here. dunno. Status from Nyx- left Harv: rabel not as long as he can earn a buck I guess Rabel1: Later Nyx hazy: Not likely. Going from "zero" to "making enough to satisfy the bill collectors" in a couple of weeks ain't gonna happen. Harv: he sells the pdq disks for $2 each. AmiGadget: cheeeeeeeeep ScottJ: Night, all. Status from ScottJ- left Status from ted-c- left DonM: I remember somebody saying he thot his jlinks worked fine, but wasn't sure about max size. didn't help. Harv: dave - believe it or not, the idea of you out of work makes my stomach hurt. Rabel1: Roy from Premier Software has given up on Amigas and he now wants to push PC PD disks. :-( AmiGadget: dave, so what's the status of disksalv 3.0 ? Harv: poor roy Harv: jay he said earlierhe'll finish it Robert-CCN: The guy with the colorful disk labels. Eeeeeek! AmiGadget: o, i thot it might already be finished DrTed: Right now I had to dump my Oak card to use another card in my 3000... so I can't use my harddrive or serial ports right now... and I am running off of floppy... Harv: roy always operated on a very thin margin and he worked alone. hazy: DiskSalv 3 is continuing, and will come out. Obviously, all this nonsense like C= going under, me needing to find a new full time job, etc. will result in a bit more delay. DeanF: hehehe gsarff: Mangoes Have Telepathic Powers, Claim Ukranian Meta-physicists. gsarff: -- Exclusive Pictures Inside. Robert-CCN: You're part time now? Do you expect the "axe" to fall soon? DeanF: test Robert-CCN: Give Medhi a parting kiss for us all. Then boot him out the door. hazy: DS is one part-time job. I'm still full-time at C=, but don't expect it to last too long unless someone buys Engineering or some-such. DonM: Thass IT!! Chickenlips knocks 20% off everything, calls them clones, and the idjits will buy them! hazy: Ali hasn't been in West Chester in over a year. Robert-CCN: Hazy, from a scale of 1-100 what are the odds of that happening? Robert-CCN: Re, someone buying engineering, and I'd guess the chipset rights or whatever with it. AmiGadget: big scale. scale of 0 to 1 is enough. it's binary, y'know. Cole: Has what is going to happen to Newtek been discussed tonight? AmiGadget: cole, no, they weren't even mentioned. Harv: cole yes and no one knows except tim jenison hazy: I'm sure someone will buy the technology. There are several interested, we know that. Obviously, it's worth something. The likelihood of someone buying it and wanting to continue Amiga development is much lower. Robert-CCN: Many rumors have flown about potentional buyers, can you name a few you think are high on the list. (if it ever happens)... Sorry if I'm covering old ground. Harv: :( AmiGadget: heh. just kidding, of course DeanF: right about now, I'd guess Tim Jennison is trying to decide whether to take his loot and retire, or try to port the hardware and software to aonther computer real quick Harv: I have this nightmare of Philipps buying CD32 and relabelling it CD-I 32 DrTed: TJ might have to sell the company jet.... AmiGadget: dean, i bet he's much more worried about getting his underware cleaned out, what with all those bricks in there. DeanF: heheh hazy: I have heard at least four different names. No results yet, but it's a different ballgame after Friday's announcement. DonM: har Harv: damn this sucks. DonM: that too Harv: I'll have to order one of those party t-shirts. even tho I don't wear t- shirts Rabel1: I tried to get a summer job at Amiga in my home town (Los Gatos, CA) back in 1984. Status from EVAlien- joined Harv: I look like the michelin man in a t-shirt. AmiGadget: no tshirts ever come in a size big enough for me EVAlien: Dinner was good! Harv: hi eva gsarff: me too. logo t-shirts are the only clothes I own :) EVAlien: Hiya harv... after dinner I may need to borrow a T-shirt Harv: ? hazy: Berlin ordered an XXL EVAlien: HARV: I ate too much AmiGadget: i neex xxxxl - no kidding Harv: yah jay me too. AmiGadget: need DrTed: You guys are making me feel down right skinny.... AmiGadget: actually, xxxl will fit, but for roomy comfort, 4x's is better DeanF: I *am* downright skinny :) gsarff: Ukranian Chemists Produce Clairvoyant Psychotic Wasp Girl. DonM: I *was* downright skinny! AmiGadget: doc, i've flown, it's no prob at all. EVAlien: now be nice DrTed :-) AmiGadget: i just hate getting off the ground in a giant metal contraption hazy: Actually at the party, I wore my "Celebrate the C128" T-Shirt, just Large. It kind of fit, but a bit tight around the chest and shoulders. XL is much more like it. hazy: Of course, I get 10-15 hours of hard exercise a week. AmiGadget: exercise... i've heard that word... EVAlien: I wear XXL to make me look shorter... but I've also gained 45lbs DrTed: I think I will mount my 3000 on a tread-mill... Harv: jay - it's when you sweat on purpose. what a concept eh AmiGadget: doc, yeh! excellent idea AmiGadget: i looked at those useless bicycles at wallymart today. the only ones i can afford look like they'd collapse if i sat on them DonM: I got an Idea! let's all go to the movies and eat popcorn! DrTed: I don't mind all this weight talk.... but if you start using four letter words like work... I will have to leave... AmiGadget: i've got so i can walk again. it's wonderful.. DeanF: sigh, speaking of the 'w' word, I have to get up for it in 4 hrs, so I better go get at least a little sleep DrTed: I once ate a LARGE popcorn with easy butter before the end of the coming attractions... Rabel1: Later DeanF DonM: I usta be told I looked like Maynard G. Krebs. speaking of work. Harv: nite dean AmiGadget: i walk to kfc, which is across the street from my apt DeanF: g'nite all, and Dave, thanks for the a3000, it's the best computer I've ever owned, and I've owned a bunch Harv: well I guess four hours of this is enough for one night Status from DeanF- left Harv: Dave - I wish you the very best of luck, you know that. you have a home here. hazy: Yeah, I gotta get movin' too. Look for the video, all. Maybe I'll call it "Mehdi and I"... AmiGadget: yeh, i'm off. nite dave. good luck. gsarff: bye. Harv: g'nite all gsarff: <- wants the vidoe :) Status from AmiGadget- left Rabel1: Thanks for joining us tonight Dave & thanks for my A3000! HAWK: Good luck dave gsarff: sleep time DrTed: Thanks for the work you did accomplish, Dave... hazy: Mehdi and Me. The Last Days of Com-Pay. Rabel1: Later Harv! gsarff: thanks dave Status from hazy- left DonM: nite ... everybody that left while i was reading. Harv: sigh HAWK: keep us inform DrTed: nite all... Harv: ....::::poof -end of edited transcript- Reply to this Previous message - Next message Previous thread - Next thread Entire thread (expanded view) - Entire thread (short view) Back to main list   Web moobunny.dreamhosters.com 1 Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore mrx (143.238.60.198) [143.238.60.198] Monday, Apr 10, 2006 2 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore John Shepard (24.21.170.178) c-24-21-170-178.hsd1.or.comcast.net Monday, Apr 10, 2006 3 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore dl (75.10.136.32) [75.10.136.32] Monday, Apr 10, 2006 4 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore Carl (210.185.11.57) [210.185.11.57] Monday, Apr 10, 2006 5 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore (213.226.82.146) [213.226.82.146] Monday, Apr 10, 2006 6 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore mrx (138.194.53.166) bgs6c1s-fa.chem.csiro.au Monday, Apr 10, 2006 7 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore EyeAm (68.59.88.97) c-68-59-88-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 8 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore pixie (87.103.78.159) [87.103.78.159] Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 9 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore Garfield (4.255.76.196) [4.255.76.196] Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 10 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore mrx (138.194.53.166) bgs6c1s-fa.chem.csiro.au Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 11 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore Carl (210.185.13.203) [210.185.13.203] Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 12 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore mrx (143.238.60.198) [143.238.60.198] Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 13 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore Ronald (67.68.24.140) [67.68.24.140] Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 14 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore dammy (68.142.7.184) dsl-7-184.cofs.net Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 15 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore EyeAm (68.59.88.97) c-68-59-88-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 16 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore John Shepard (24.21.170.178) c-24-21-170-178.hsd1.or.comcast.net Friday, Apr 14, 2006 17 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore Secret Vampire (217.147.80.40) batguano.bcnadsl.com Friday, Apr 14, 2006 18 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore EyeAm (68.59.88.97) c-68-59-88-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net Friday, Apr 14, 2006 19 Re: Dave Haynie, 1994 - The night before of the demise of Commodore XraalE (82.40.25.175) [82.40.25.175] Saturday, Apr 15, 2006 It is now: 16:04:19 GMT. 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