Moo Bunny Amiga - thread "Euroed.."
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Euroed..

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Euroed..

AdmV. AdmV.

212.219.87.3
On 19.05. 2006 at the University of Copenhagen someone asked Ms. Wallström about the Euromediterranean Project and why the EU and our media kept it totally secret from us. She simply crimsoned and muttered something incomprehensible. The only thing I understood was that she did not understand why I minded the Euromediterranean, which was after all, just to help our poor neighbours.

When I replied that I minded the Euromediterranean Project, because on Dec. 2-3, 2003 in Naples at the VI. Euromediterranean Foreign Minister Conference the EU had promised the citzens of 9 Muslim North African and Middle Eastern countries the 4 fundamental rights of the EU – including free immigration into the EU and a common market from 2010 – without she or our media asking or informing us Europeans, Ms. Wallström did not even mutter any longer.

http://ec.europa.eu/external_relations/euromed/conf/naples/index.htm

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Re: Euroed..

Gregg. ..

[81.153.132.16]
> On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008, AdmV wrote:
> On 19.05. 2006 at the University of Copenhagen someone asked Ms. Wallstr�m
> about the Euromediterranean Project and why the EU and our media kept it
> totally secret from us. She simply crimsoned and muttered something
> incomprehensible. The only thing I understood was that she did not
> understand why I minded the Euromediterranean, which was after all, just to
> help our poor neighbours.
>
> When I replied that I minded the Euromediterranean Project, because on Dec.
> 2-3, 2003 in Naples at the VI. Euromediterranean Foreign Minister
> Conference the EU had promised the citzens of 9 Muslim North African and
> Middle Eastern countries the 4 fundamental rights of the EU � including
> free immigration into the EU and a common market from 2010 � without she or
> our media asking or informing us Europeans, Ms. Wallstr�m did not even
> mutter any longer.
>
> http://ec.europa.eu/external_relations/euromed/conf/naples/index.htm

Formal political and economic interaction with foreign cultures is a very poor way to ameliorate extreme beliefs and behaviours in more isolated countries.

We should just invade them - that works much better. Or there is some philosophy around vitreous automobile storage areas, I believe.

Gregg

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Re: Euroed..

pixie. ncosta@esec.pt.

[77.54.63.251]
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008, Gregg wrote:
>
> Formal political and economic interaction with foreign cultures is a very
> poor way to ameliorate extreme beliefs and behaviours in more isolated
> countries.
>
> We should just invade them - that works much better. Or there is some
> philosophy around vitreous automobile storage areas, I believe.

Better still, burn 'em, and if possible bring their heads in sticks...

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Re: Euroed..

XraalE. moo.

82-40-141-69.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008, Gregg wrote:
>
> Formal political and economic interaction with foreign cultures is a very
> poor way to ameliorate extreme beliefs and behaviours in more isolated
> countries.
>
> We should just invade them - that works much better. Or there is some
> philosophy around vitreous automobile storage areas, I believe.

Are you trying to give AdmV an aneurism or something, Gregg? :)

In the event that this is not a teasing feint, let me remind you of one thing: there are a great many people we can allow into our civilisation who will hugely benefit of our education, our social programs, our developed law system, then happily show their gratitude for murdering us for it. Some countries isolate themselves, and are better left isolated.

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Re: Euroed..

sky. blue.

[86.142.142.217]
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> > On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008, AdmV wrote:
> > On 19.05. 2006 at the University of Copenhagen someone asked Ms. Wallstr�m
> > about the Euromediterranean Project and why the EU and our media kept it
> > totally secret from us. She simply crimsoned and muttered something
> > incomprehensible. The only thing I understood was that she did not
> > understand why I minded the Euromediterranean, which was after all, just to
> > help our poor neighbours.
> >
> > When I replied that I minded the Euromediterranean Project, because on Dec.
> > 2-3, 2003 in Naples at the VI. Euromediterranean Foreign Minister
> > Conference the EU had promised the citzens of 9 Muslim North African and
> > Middle Eastern countries the 4 fundamental rights of the EU � including
> > free immigration into the EU and a common market from 2010 � without she or
> > our media asking or informing us Europeans, Ms. Wallstr�m did not even
> > mutter any longer.
> >
> > http://ec.europa.eu/external_relations/euromed/conf/naples/index.htm
>
> Formal political and economic interaction with foreign cultures is a very
> poor way to ameliorate extreme beliefs and behaviours in more isolated
> countries.

Haha... I suspect these "isolated" countries will become a lot more extreme when they find out what Greater Francais has in store for them.

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Re: Euroed..

Gregg. ..

[81.156.69.26]
> On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008, XraalE wrote:
> > On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> >
> > Formal political and economic interaction with foreign cultures is a very
> > poor way to ameliorate extreme beliefs and behaviours in more isolated
> > countries.
> >
> > We should just invade them - that works much better. Or there is some
> > philosophy around vitreous automobile storage areas, I believe.
>
> Are you trying to give AdmV an aneurism or something, Gregg? :)

Well, not deliberately. It would be unChristian to wish ill on him, but a mild case of apoplexy might be acceptable - although that seems to be his standard demeanour anyway.

> In the event that this is not a teasing feint, let me remind you of one
> thing: there are a great many people we can allow into our civilisation who
> will hugely benefit of our education, our social programs, our developed
> law system, then happily show their gratitude for murdering us for it. Some
> countries isolate themselves, and are better left isolated.

I feel that most attempts to "engage" countries that have not embraced the glorious Western model (nominally democratic government subordinated to pseudo-free-market-capitalism and endemic, if civilised, corruption) are either hopelessly naive or horribly cynical - sometimes I cannot tell which, but the track record is poor in either case.

Having said that, dealing with people, individuals, is really the only way to defuse a lot of the anger and hatred, which often stems from misunderstanding and ignorance. A simple social experiment : how likely are you to get into acrimonious dispute with your noisy neighbour if you :

a) Smile and say hello when you see each other;*

b) Keep shtum and avoid eye contact except when absolutely necessary.

As an aside, note how much closer the Internet is to b) than a) - you bastard.

Gregg

* : Shagging the neighbour's wife is probably taking this principle to an unhelpful extremes.

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Re: Euroed..

Stew. Stew@TheMoo.

cpe-70-117-144-176.gt.res.rr.com
On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Gregg wrote:
>
>> Having said that, dealing with people, individuals, is really the only way
> to defuse a lot of the anger and hatred, which often stems from
> misunderstanding and ignorance. A simple social experiment : how likely are
> you to get into acrimonious dispute with your noisy neighbour if you :
>
> a) Smile and say hello when you see each other;*
>
> b) Keep shtum and avoid eye contact except when absolutely necessary.
>
> As an aside, note how much closer the Internet is to b) than a) - you
> bastard.
>
> Gregg
>
> * : Shagging the neighbour's wife is probably taking this principle to an
> unhelpful extremes.
>
We in Texas practice a, we even wave to each other passing by in cars. Doesn't seem to have stopped the fact there is still crime, even neighbor against neighbor. Some people are full of hate, familiarity will not
diffuse this but may breed contempt and jealousy. Some cultures foster
this and there lies the problem.

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Re: Euroed..

Gregg. ..

[81.156.69.26]
> On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Stew wrote:
> > On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> >
> >> Having said that, dealing with people, individuals, is really the
> only way
> > to defuse a lot of the anger and hatred, which often stems from
> > misunderstanding and ignorance. A simple social experiment : how likely are
> > you to get into acrimonious dispute with your noisy neighbour if you :
> >
> > a) Smile and say hello when you see each other;*
> >
> > b) Keep shtum and avoid eye contact except when absolutely necessary.
> >
> > As an aside, note how much closer the Internet is to b) than a) - you
> > bastard.
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > * : Shagging the neighbour's wife is probably taking this principle to an
> > unhelpful extremes.
> >
> We in Texas practice a, we even wave to each other passing by in cars.

How sweet. We did that in Massachusetts too, but usually only using one or two fingers.

> Doesn't seem to have stopped the fact there is still crime, even neighbor
> against neighbor.

Think you could move some of them bad neighbours over towards Crawford Ranch?

> Some people are full of hate, familiarity will not
> diffuse this but may breed contempt and jealousy. Some cultures foster
> this and there lies the problem.

Any culture that deliberately fosters hate, contempt and jealousy will not last very long - and I don't count politically-imposed perspectives as culture.

Having said that, I'm still going to smile at neighbours and strangers in the street - right up to the day they come to take me away.

Anyway, you can't find any Texans in Texas any more - full o' god-damn goat-ropers, man.

Gregg

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Re: Euroed..

Stew. Stew@TheMoo.

cpe-70-117-144-176.gt.res.rr.com
On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> > On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Stew wrote:
> > > On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> > >
> Any culture that deliberately fosters hate, contempt and jealousy will not
> last very long - and I don't count politically-imposed perspectives as
> culture.
>
>
> Gregg
>

I was going to write a witty reply but I think history proves that statement wrong far better then I ever could.

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Re: Euroed..

Gregg. ..

[81.153.188.123]
> On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Stew wrote:
> > On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> > > On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Stew wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> > > >
> > Any culture that deliberately fosters hate, contempt and jealousy will not
> > last very long - and I don't count politically-imposed perspectives as
> > culture.
> >
> >
> > Gregg
> >
>
> I was going to write a witty reply but I think history proves that
> statement wrong far better then I ever could.

That is a cop-out. Provide a few examples at least - maybe it is just that my memory is faulty, and you have here a golden chance to edjumacate me.

Gregg

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Re: Euroed..

pixie. ncosta@esec.pt.

[87.103.91.218]
On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Gregg wrote:
>
> That is a cop-out. Provide a few examples at least - maybe it is just that
> my memory is faulty, and you have here a golden chance to edjumacate me.

He was talking about the Nazis, The USSR...

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Re: Euroed..

Stew. Stew@TheMoo.

cpe-70-117-144-176.gt.res.rr.com
On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, pixie wrote:
> On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> >
> > That is a cop-out. Provide a few examples at least - maybe it is just that
> > my memory is faulty, and you have here a golden chance to edjumacate me.
>
> He was talking about the Nazis, The USSR...
>

I would include the anti-semitism of many cultures, China, N Korea, and many indingenous tribes that wared for centuries with thier cousin tribes based on hate handed down through generation after generation. I am sure one of Gregg's intelligence level could find many more examples throughout history.

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Re: Euroed..

Gregg. ..

[81.153.188.123]
> On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, pixie wrote:
> > On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> >
> > That is a cop-out. Provide a few examples at least - maybe it is just that
> > my memory is faulty, and you have here a golden chance to edjumacate me.
>
> He was talking about the Nazis, The USSR...

QED.

The Nazis are gone as a culture.

The USSR fails to be an example every way you look at it :

. It was not a culture; it was by its very name a political construct.
. It has failed (but look out for USSR II, coming to a tactical nuclear theatre near you).
. It did not deliberately foster hate, contempt and jealousy (unless you believe U.S. propaganda - irony)

Any more for any more?

Gregg

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Re: Euroed..

Gregg. ..

[81.153.188.123]
> On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Stew wrote:
> > On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, pixie wrote:
> > > On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> > >
> > > That is a cop-out. Provide a few examples at least - maybe it is just that
> > > my memory is faulty, and you have here a golden chance to edjumacate me.
> >
> > He was talking about the Nazis, The USSR...
> >
>
> I would include the anti-semitism of many cultures, China, N Korea, and
> many indingenous tribes that wared for centuries with thier cousin tribes
> based on hate handed down through generation after generation. I am sure
> one of Gregg's intelligence level could find many more examples throughout
> history.

Hmm... Continuous ribal warfare is an example, but not a convincing one. I would argue that these cultures are largely confined to history - and those that are not are doing their damnedest to join them - so they fail the "will not last very long" test.

How am I doing?

Gregg

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Re: Euroed..

AdmV. AdmV.

212.219.87.3
Anyone can see that in Britain, 2008, individuality is being suppressed, so that year by year, generation by generation, the people are being bullied or brainwashed into docile conformity. What is more ominous is that so many want to be docile. They want to be supervised, cosseted, homogenised, obedient....

The so-called war on terror is of course the supposed excuse for this appalling violation of all our privacies, together with the ominous rise of the secret intelligence agencies. The public has been gulled into acceptance of the supervisory state, with all its paraphernalia of surveillance and identity cards, DNA databases, armed police and arbitrary search, by the mantra: "If you don't do anything wrong, why worry?"

Brainwashed by a tabloid press of brilliantly insidious techniques, then, numbed by the relentless mediocrity of television, half the people have willingly forfeited the right to make up their own minds, and mutely accept indoctrination. "He's not afraid of anything," I overheard one young mother say to another, watching her three-year-old clambering over an obstacle, but the reply came straight from the state: "Oh that's dangerous, you must never allow him to think like that."

Even the middle classes, once the very backbone of robust individualism, are not immune to the contagion. They all think twice about expressing their views in case they say something that is politically incorrect. They preposterously mollycoddle their children, not only because they have been so repeatedly warned of life's unspeakable dangers but also because they wonder what the neighbours will think. They are officially encouraged to snoop and sneak on their fellow citizens, so snoop and sneak they do.

And when you are afraid to say what you think, it is a step nearer to the most dreadful condition of all: being afraid of what to think. A few more generations of nagging and surveillance and we shall have forgotten what true freedom is. Young people will have foregone the excitements of risk, academics will temper all thought with caution, and the great public will accept without demur all restrictions and requirements of the state. Ours will be a people moulded to docility, perfect fodder for ideologues....

Tribalism is what every despotism hopes to impose on its people. It is the will of the party, which Davis has apparently flouted. It is the will of the majority, which is one reason why Gordon Brown feels no need to put up a candidate at Haltemprice and Howden. Today the whistleblowers are our guardians of the spirit, and I like to think that Davis is one of them - a true successor of the grand old knight of Castile, but alas, tilting at windmills that are all too real.

- Jan Morris - Guardian (Who's think The Guardian and a Conservative reach common ground..)

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Re: Euroed..

TG, Friday.... G-Brown@pants.

195.171.106.170
On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> but look out for USSR II, coming to a tactical nuclear theatre near you

It's already there... And it's called Not-So-Great-Britain. Thanks to Godown Clown aka Mr Bean ! :-P

// Does the Spaniards count (Pizarro and Cortes)? Remember how they slaughter the Incas and the Mayas/Aztecs ? ;-)



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Re: Euroed..

AdmV. AdmV.

212.219.87.3
On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, TG, Friday... wrote:
> On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> > but look out for USSR II, coming to a tactical nuclear theatre near you
>
> It's already there... And it's called Not-So-Great-Britain. Thanks to
> Godown Clown aka Mr Bean ! :-P
>
> // Does the Spaniards count (Pizarro and Cortes)? Remember how they
> slaughter the Incas and the Mayas/Aztecs ? ;-)
>

THE UK GOVERNMENT has justified keeping the details of innocent people on the National DNA Database with shameless propaganda, according to a report by Genewatch.

The campaign group tackled claims repeated by Prime Munster Gordon Brown for retaining the DNA records of people picked up by the police but not charged with any offence, just in case they really do commit a crime one day.

This was not merely another reminder that the retention of innocent people's DNA threatens to replace the principle that all people are innocent until proven guilty, with the malodorous mantra that some people are more suspicious than others, we just can't prove that they are yet: it was a thorough shredding of the arguments used by the government and security hawks for the retention of innocent people's DNA (such as the Ipswich murderer and the killer of Sally-Anne Bowman).

Dr Helen Wallace, Genewatch campaigner, said today: "The Prime Minister’s claim that 'in all probability' 114 murderers would have walked away had innocent people’s records not been retained on the National DNA Database is false." Brown had been defending the UK's growing use of sci-fi security technology, saying it brought liberty to the British people by making them feel safer.

There is little evidence that any of it is very effective and that the money might not be better spent tackling social inequalities and the causes of crime. Nevertheless Brown tried to defend the government's retention of innocent people's DNA by claiming the practice was effective. "If we had not made this change, 8,000 suspects who have been matched with crime scenes since 2001 would in all probability have got away, their DNA having been deleted from the database. This includes 114 murders, 55 attempted murders, 116 rapes, 68 other sexual offences, 119 aggravated burglaries, and 127 drugs offences," Brown said.

Not only were these claims false, Wallace pointed out, but the government itself had admitted so in 2006. The problems with the claims were many, starting with the fact that they are based on government guestimates with no reference to actual prosecutions. The government has presented no evidence of prosecutions despite the growth in these numbers since it first started touting them in 2004.

But Brown's numbers are two years old and include references to DNA suspects identified seven years ago. The Genewatch report reminded us of the many reasons why DNA matches can link an innocent person with a crime, the least of which are false matches and the errors on the database. Just one out of every eight DNA matches lands someone with a prison sentence, according to Genewatch. Only two out of every DNA matches lead to a conviction.

Half of those suspects detected on the DNA database, however, had already been identified. And most of those were up for burglaries. The victim's DNA is what counts in murder cases an rape cases usually hinge on consent.

Genewatch cited examples of where the government had misleadingly used, even in court, evidence of emotive rape and murder cases to justify the retention of innocent people's DNA. While the National Policing Improvement Agency has said it is not possible to give a number of convictions secured with DNA because people can't be convicted on DNA evidence alone. Many people's DNA will be found at a crime scene.

These are some of the reasons the British Academy of Forensic Sciences said keeping innocents' DNA was disproportionate. The Scottish Parliament thought so too, having ruled out the retention of innocents' DNA twice in the last two years. It did so because it was "vital to strike the right balance between prosecuting criminals and protecting the innocent".

Brown cited that same need for balance in his defence of the retention of innocent's DNA.
>

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Re: Euroed..

XraalE. moo.

82-40-141-69.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> I feel that most attempts to "engage" countries that have not embraced the
> glorious Western model (nominally democratic government subordinated to
> pseudo-free-market-capitalism and endemic, if civilised, corruption) are
> either hopelessly naive or horribly cynical - sometimes I cannot tell
> which, but the track record is poor in either case.

Nobody but the severely deluded could pretend that the western civilisation is perfect in any way. In fact my own continued contact with easterners has pretty much convinced me of the west's deepening cultural inferiority. But to be honest, one thing the west does get right, is that shooting holes in a book (regardless of holiness) is a hell of a lot less serious than shooting holes in people.

> Having said that, dealing with people, individuals, is really the only way
> to defuse a lot of the anger and hatred, which often stems from
> misunderstanding and ignorance.

But what if it doesn't actually stem from ingorance, but from a given culture's general outlook on the value of human life? We in the west can generally only tolerate murder if we don't have to look at it, but there are many cultures who rank human life far below social "order", religion, money, and generally just about anything. Reminds me of story about Bedouin (no idea if its true): they have a strong sense of honour, will generally be friendly to outsiders, and would probably make very good friends; but touch their camel and they will think very little of putting a knife in your guts. Hard places beget hard people, I guess.

> A simple social experiment : how likely are
> you to get into acrimonious dispute with your noisy neighbour if you :
>
> a) Smile and say hello when you see each other;*
>
> b) Keep shtum and avoid eye contact except when absolutely necessary.
>
> As an aside, note how much closer the Internet is to b) than a) - you
> bastard.

Funny you should say that, because my neighbour is the most unthinkingly selfish git you could imagine, a man who would take everything I owned if I let him, then charge me a bill for his time. He's the kind of sancimonious type who will let his foster kids into the yard at 6am in the morning and 1am at night on a weekend, jam up the street with his four cars, then complain about the slightest noise or small city car on the street. And none of this out of nastiness, just out of apparently blissful unawareness that the world might not revolve around him. Typical 21st century British nouveau riche white trash, really.

I'm afraid acrimonious dispute with some people either amounts to standing your line, or endless appeasement. As regards to my neighbour, no amount of cordial smiling and small chat and gestures of goodwill will do anything about his inherently selfish nature, so I ignore him, and ignore everything he does, and maintain my own rights independently of his. See where I'm going with this?

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Re: Euroed..

Gregg. ..

[86.145.192.27]
> On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, XraalE wrote:
> > On Thursday, Jun 26, 2008, Gregg wrote:

<snip>

> > A simple social experiment : how likely are
> > you to get into acrimonious dispute with your noisy neighbour if you :
> >
> > a) Smile and say hello when you see each other;*
> >
> > b) Keep shtum and avoid eye contact except when absolutely necessary.
> >
> > As an aside, note how much closer the Internet is to b) than a) - you
> > bastard.
>
> Funny you should say that, because my neighbour is the most unthinkingly
> selfish git you could imagine, a man who would take everything I owned if I
> let him, then charge me a bill for his time. He's the kind of sancimonious
> type who will let his foster kids into the yard at 6am in the morning and
> 1am at night on a weekend, jam up the street with his four cars, then
> complain about the slightest noise or small city car on the street. And
> none of this out of nastiness, just out of apparently blissful unawareness
> that the world might not revolve around him. Typical 21st century British
> nouveau riche white trash, really.
>
> I'm afraid acrimonious dispute with some people either amounts to standing
> your line, or endless appeasement. As regards to my neighbour, no amount of
> cordial smiling and small chat and gestures of goodwill will do anything
> about his inherently selfish nature, so I ignore him, and ignore everything
> he does, and maintain my own rights independently of his. See where I'm
> going with this?

Straight to Hell?

I know what you mean, though - I hate people in general too. I try to temper this with hopelessly naiive philanthropy from time to time, but that just seems to make things worse. One of my neighbours is a recovering drug addict, and a bit of a yob; he just did the flooring in another neighbour's house, who said what an excellent job he had done. Sometimes I think about offering the chap a job myself, and then think "Don't be so fucking stupid."

Since you mentioned Bedouin, perhaps this is a good time for this link :

http://www.friendshiparabia.com/

Gregg

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Re: Euroed..

XraalE. moo.

82-40-141-69.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Saturday, Jun 28, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> I know what you mean, though - I hate people in general too. I try to
> temper this with hopelessly naiive philanthropy from time to time, but that
> just seems to make things worse. One of my neighbours is a recovering drug
> addict, and a bit of a yob; he just did the flooring in another neighbour's
> house, who said what an excellent job he had done. Sometimes I think about
> offering the chap a job myself, and then think "Don't be so fucking
> stupid."

I used to think I was hopelessly mysanthropic myself. I went to a chav highschool, which gave me the option only of going to a chav university, which left me with little employment choices and so I went to a jobcentre for about 6 months, which, naturally, is full of chavs. So up until fairly recently I had decided that people, generally speaking, were fucktards. It wasn't until I got my break and started meeting people from other countries and (dare I say it) other social classes that I realised that some people might actually be quite nice and might actually share common features with me. Like not wanting to down cheap booze and scream abuse at random passers-by, for instance.

It also made me understand that people are not all the same, and some cultures were indeed completely incompatible to others, and should not be harphazardly thrown together with some vague hope they might all sort it out and achieve multicultural utopia. Some cultures just suck ass, basically, and it would benefit their people greatly if they declined. And I'm not saying that from a BNP-voting British point of view - I think the British culture is one of them.

> Since you mentioned Bedouin, perhaps this is a good time for this link :
>
> http://www.friendshiparabia.com/

I think I prefer the camel-hoarding stabby stereotype.

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Re: Euroed..

Stew. Stew@TheMoo.

cpe-70-117-144-176.gt.res.rr.com
On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Gregg wrote:
>
> Hmm... Continuous ribal warfare is an example, but not a convincing one. I
> would argue that these cultures are largely confined to history - and those
> that are not are doing their damnedest to join them - so they fail the
> "will not last very long" test.
>
> How am I doing?
>
> Gregg
>
I guess we have to define "not very lone" as the anti-semitism handed down through generations counts for me. The anti-muslim and ant-christian cultures also count in my book. The prodestant/catholic hate can count in my book also.
I am sure you could really come up with some better hate/bigotry examples that is handed down through the generations that transcend personal expierence. Example: I have neighbors that have married people of muslim and jewish descent. They are cordigial and we have had both couples over for dinner and cards. The get along well but the muslim still advocates the destruction of Israel. Of course this topic is not discussed when we are all together as he does not want to hurt the jewish neighbor.

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Re: Euroed..

Gregg. ..

[81.153.188.252]
> On Sunday, Jun 29, 2008, Stew wrote:
> > On Friday, Jun 27, 2008, Gregg wrote:
> >
> > Hmm... Continuous ribal warfare is an example, but not a convincing one. I
> > would argue that these cultures are largely confined to history - and those
> > that are not are doing their damnedest to join them - so they fail the
> > "will not last very long" test.
> >
> > How am I doing?
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> I guess we have to define "not very lone" as the anti-semitism handed down
> through generations counts for me. The anti-muslim and ant-christian
> cultures also count in my book. The prodestant/catholic hate can count in
> my book also.
> I am sure you could really come up with some better hate/bigotry examples
> that is handed down through the generations that transcend personal
> expierence. Example: I have neighbors that have married people of muslim
> and jewish descent. They are cordigial and we have had both couples over
> for dinner and cards. The get along well but the muslim still advocates the
> destruction of Israel. Of course this topic is not discussed when we are
> all together as he does not want to hurt the jewish neighbor.

Fair argument. I acknowledge that many cultures seem to be inherently racist, although it may be that this has often arisen when a mild instinctual xenophobia* has been exploited by unscrupulous leaders - and once in place is very hard to slogh off. Not yet convinced that this qualifies as a cultural fostering of jealousy and contempt.

Gregg

* : Yes, "mild ... phobia" is oxymoronic, but "you know what I mean".

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Re: Euroed..

XraalE. moo.

franc.cc.strath.ac.uk
On Thursday, Jul 3, 2008, Gregg wrote:
>
> Fair argument. I acknowledge that many cultures seem to be inherently
> racist, although it may be that this has often arisen when a mild
> instinctual xenophobia* has been exploited by unscrupulous leaders - and
> once in place is very hard to slogh off. Not yet convinced that this
> qualifies as a cultural fostering of jealousy and contempt.

Simple, cultures that rally around a single power base and/or religion are usually strong, and strong cultures usually survive and thrive rather than weaker ones, so there is a sort of social natural selection there. We're bred to be xenophobic Daily Mail reading morons. Isn't that a comforting thought?

Myself, I'd rather live in a free culture than a strong one, although I think all cultures have a shelf life of one form or another and we've reached the end of ours. I would gladly ditch my own culture for a better one - Islam *not* included.

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