Moo Bunny Amiga - thread "SAM USB problem is still there...."
mechorizer (1999)

SAM USB problem is still there....

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SAM USB problem is still there....

bobalot. ..

(193.200.150.82) mail82.anonymouse.org
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29126&forum=14

yet another dumb customer that dont know he have bought beta hw and os, find another fatal error that have not been fixed.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.164) [97.77.93.164]
It's all beta so it's all good!

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
It's ok, original Amigas didn't have USB so it didn't matter.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

zee. z@z.z.

(67.8.82.95) 95.82.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com
On Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> It's ok, original Amigas didn't have USB so it didn't matter.

Ironically, an A500 with a clockport adapter and that 68000 based USB stack floating around out there is likely a better "Amiga" to have USB on than an A1 of any stripe or a SAM.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009, zee wrote:
> On Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > It's ok, original Amigas didn't have USB so it didn't matter.
>
> Ironically, an A500 with a clockport adapter and that 68000 based USB stack
> floating around out there is likely a better "Amiga" to have USB on than an
> A1 of any stripe or a SAM.

I remember with no small amount of schadenfreud the jeering that was going on because the Pegasos "only" had integral USB 1.1. Now it is the only platform OS4 runs on that has reliable USB (if you exclude rebadged Elbox stuff for classic that will format your hard drive).

But where is the problem? Is it in their USB stack? Or the filesystem? Or the device driver attached to the USB stack? Or the USB port itself? Nobody seems to know at all. They all seem to have bugs. Ageing CrossDOS is no match for Marek's fatfs when it comes to filesystems - unfortunately it doesn't run without help on OS4 since Stroehmeyer thinks "td64 is a bug".

And OS4 devs are no match for Chris Hodges when it comes to USB, that evil Mopros program that just happened to be available for Amigas and clockport hacks for years too.

And the hardware is shit. Truly shit. AmigaONE had almost useless USB ports. Sam's don't appear to be much better.

A pity they burned all their bridges or they could have some help tracking down thee. Well, not a pity really because they deserve it, being obnoxius namefollowing wankers and all. You make your bed, you lie in it.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.164) [97.77.93.164]
On Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> I remember with no small amount of schadenfreud the jeering that was going
> on because the Pegasos "only" had integral USB 1.1. Now it is the only
> platform OS4 runs on that has reliable USB (if you exclude rebadged Elbox
> stuff for classic that will format your hard drive).

Some OS4 advocates have taken the stance that the problem is the USB standard itself. Apparently it's still too new and has bugs that need ironing out.


> But where is the problem? Is it in their USB stack? Or the filesystem? Or
> the device driver attached to the USB stack? Or the USB port itself? Nobody
> seems to know at all.

It's in the timer chip!
http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=36955#forumpost36955


> And the hardware is shit. Truly shit. AmigaONE had almost useless USB
> ports. Sam's don't appear to be much better.

I'm kind of surprised that nobody has brought up the fact that there are different versions of OS4 for every board. If I go to the store and buy a random PC, I can go to a completely different store and buy a generic copy of Windows - not an Asus version, not a Dell version - and it magically runs on the PC.

No wonder Hyperion is afraid of x86 - *they* really WOULD have to write a version of OS4 for every x86 board out there. And these board-specific rewrites apparently take a very long time. How long did it take to get a version out for the antique PPC expansion cards? How long was the SAM out before Hyperion cobbled together a version for it?

But ultimately, it's all beta! I'm sure the boys at Hyperion will get around to fixing all these problems before the release, right after they finish this year the most ambitious project Hyperion has ever undertaken.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

Jungle Bunny. #.

(65.121.157.245) 65-121-157-245.dia.static.qwest.net
On Thursday, Jul 2, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> On Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > I remember with no small amount of schadenfreud the jeering that was going
> > on because the Pegasos "only" had integral USB 1.1. Now it is the only
> > platform OS4 runs on that has reliable USB (if you exclude rebadged Elbox
> > stuff for classic that will format your hard drive).
>
> Some OS4 advocates have taken the stance that the problem is the USB
> standard itself. Apparently it's still too new and has bugs that need
> ironing out.

Lol, it's only 13 years old, and even Windows 95 got a patch to use that new tech.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

zee. z@z.z.

(67.8.82.95) 95.82.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com
On Thursday, Jul 2, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> Some OS4 advocates have taken the stance that the problem is the USB
> standard itself. Apparently it's still too new and has bugs that need
> ironing out.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

WHAT.

Where is this being discussed so that they can get the pimp hand for such stupidity?

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

zee. z@z.z.

(67.8.82.95) 95.82.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com
On Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009, XraalE wrote:

> And the hardware is shit. Truly shit. AmigaONE had almost useless USB
> ports. Sam's don't appear to be much better.

No, the A1's ports weren't "almost useless" they were "thoroughly broken". Remember the resistors that were put on wrong and in the wrong place? Shit would go haywire if you plugged anything in, and the community circled the wagons and told everyone "JUST USE A HUB" except a hub doesn't magically unfuck that reference board bullshit MAI foisted on them. Then it was "GET A USB CARD FOR THE SLOT" - except that hardly worked, and then what card to get? Hope your computer city or compusa carried that specific chipset.

Oh, it makes my head hurt.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.164) [97.77.93.164]
On Thursday, Jul 2, 2009, zee wrote:
> On Thursday, Jul 2, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> > Some OS4 advocates have taken the stance that the problem is the USB
> > standard itself. Apparently it's still too new and has bugs that need
> > ironing out.
>
> PFFFFFFFFFFFFT.
>
> WHAT.
>
> Where is this being discussed so that they can get the pimp hand for such
> stupidity?

amigans.net. Not an ongoing discussion but comments here and there from characters such as Slayer, BillE, etc. to the effect "I only use PS2 mouse/keyboard", "many USB devices don't work on other OSes", "USB causes difficulty with any device", so on and so on. Just read any of the SAM or A1 problem report threads on amigans and it won't be long until you see similar comments.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.164) [97.77.93.164]
Looks like Linux works fine on SAM:
http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2975&forum=10

Guess that helps narrow down the problem area - OS4 just sucks.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

zee. z@z.z.

(67.8.82.95) 95.82.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com
On Thursday, Jul 2, 2009, jorkany wrote:
>
> amigans.net. Not an ongoing discussion but comments here and there from
> characters such as Slayer, BillE, etc. to the effect "I only use PS2
> mouse/keyboard", "many USB devices don't work on other OSes", "USB causes
> difficulty with any device", so on and so on. Just read any of the SAM or
> A1 problem report threads on amigans and it won't be long until you see
> similar comments.

Wow. I went digging and...that's sad. That's just...oh man, that's sadder than sad. Now, I'll be the first to admit, some newer-ish USB devices + Win98 (or 95 OSR2) is an iffy prospect, assuming the company has dropped all support, but you take devices of the same vintage as those OS's and they'll work just fine.

Man, dismissing a bread-and-butter technology like that, that's just pathetic.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

XraalE. moo.

(130.159.17.137) [130.159.17.137]
On Friday, Jul 3, 2009, zee wrote:
>
> Wow. I went digging and...that's sad. That's just...oh man, that's sadder
> than sad. Now, I'll be the first to admit, some newer-ish USB devices +
> Win98 (or 95 OSR2) is an iffy prospect, assuming the company has dropped
> all support, but you take devices of the same vintage as those OS's and
> they'll work just fine.

Of course, hardware that needs specific XP+ drivers won't work, but this tends to be a minority of USB devices. Certainly pen drives formatted with FAT32 are no problem, unless they do something like encrypt or have something else funny in there.

> Man, dismissing a bread-and-butter technology like that, that's just
> pathetic.

No lame excuses about niche OS's will make up for it, either. MorphOS has no problems in this area, either with stack or drivers or filesystem.

We need the good old days where there were blue trolls ready to rub it in over there and drive the neanderthals mad. Rewind back to 2004, when MOS was being slated because it didn't have floppy drivers at the time. Floppy! In 2004! And they wonder why we have so little pity for them.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

Purple Troll. .@....

(91.109.11.85) [91.109.11.85]
USB works perfectly with my ľA1.

And I have no difference with MorphOS and Amiga OS4.1 on the Peg 2.

But if it makes you lot happy, carry on guys.


PS, no I've never used a SAM of any type, so I dunno about that one.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Saturday, Jul 4, 2009, Purple Troll wrote:
> USB works perfectly with my ľA1.
>
> And I have no difference with MorphOS and Amiga OS4.1 on the Peg 2.
>
> But if it makes you lot happy, carry on guys.
>
>
> PS, no I've never used a SAM of any type, so I dunno about that one.

You're seriously trying to tell us that OS4's USB stack is as good as Poseidon? lol?

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

purple Troll. .@...

(91.110.68.101) [91.110.68.101]
On Sunday, Jul 5, 2009, XraalE wrote:

>
> You're seriously trying to tell us that OS4's USB stack is as good as
> Poseidon? lol?
>

Everything I've stuck into my USB has worked as least as well as on AmigaOS as on MorphOS, so for me, so yes.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Sunday, Jul 5, 2009, purple Troll wrote:
> On Sunday, Jul 5, 2009, XraalE wrote:
>
> >
> > You're seriously trying to tell us that OS4's USB stack is as good as
> > Poseidon? lol?
> >
>
> Everything I've stuck into my USB has worked as least as well as on AmigaOS
> as on MorphOS, so for me, so yes.

It works on AmigaOS because Poseidon runs on AmigaOS. What about OS4?

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009, bobalot wrote:
> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29126&forum=14
>
> yet another dumb customer that dont know he have bought beta hw and os,
> find another fatal error that have not been fixed.
>

OS4 doesn't need Poseidon, its native USB stack is of great quality, and it's not at all kludged together or a low priority component of OS4:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25133&forum=27&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

Again, the OS4 USB stack is of great quality, it's stable as a rock, Poseidon doesn't offer much beyond it, and "*I* don't have a problem with USB on OS4", and the OS4 stack is *good enough today* since if it would happen to lack something (performance, features, stability), it will be *attended to in the future*:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39449

Here is a thought: Why not open source Poseidon, the Amiga standard in USB? Through a bounty perhaps? Great idea! Uh? It has already been suggested? Uh? The bounty has already been reached?

Hm, well, I see "Genesi" here...

http://www.power2people.org/bounty_041.html

...but where is "HyperionMP"?

Here is a thought - what if Hyperion would have diverted just a small, teeny-weeny fraction of those "$2.000.000" they have "spent" on OS4 towards that Poseidon bounty, and perhaps top that with a little tip to make Chris Hodges a little enthusiastic about OS4?

A bad idea? Well, obviously.

Well, I guess Hyperion has an internal policy about open source sources...

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
I don't get why they keep trying to copy the genuine article with their bad knockoffs or beg ports from it. MorphOS was obviously always better, and they could have been running it years ago and not waiting years for the chuckle brothers to finish a badly planned and executed shadow of it.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

GK. malibannNOSPAM@t-online.de.

(79.216.228.189) [79.216.228.189]
Sams Audio problems ( that never existed )
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29131&forum=14#499508

are solved now:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4972

So the error free AOS4 must be more error free than before ...

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.164) [97.77.93.164]
On Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009, GK wrote:
> Sams Audio problems ( that never existed )
>
> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29131&forum=14#499508
>
> are solved now:
> http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4972
>
> So the error free AOS4 must be more error free than before ...

From that thread:
"The sound quality from my SAM (non-Flex) is excellent, apart from the initial scratchy or crackly noises when a sound starts playing."

Please OS4 users, stop insulting the word "excellent". Makes friends with the more appropriate word "sucks". Thank you.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

zee. z@z.z.

(67.8.82.95) 95.82.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com
On Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> On Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009, GK wrote:
> > Sams Audio problems ( that never existed )
> >
> > http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29131&forum=14#499508
> >
> > are solved now:
> > http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4972
> >
> > So the error free AOS4 must be more error free than before ...
>
> From that thread:
> "The sound quality from my SAM (non-Flex) is excellent, apart from the
> initial scratchy or crackly noises when a sound starts playing."
>
> Please OS4 users, stop insulting the word "excellent". Makes friends with
> the more appropriate word "sucks". Thank you.

Wow, SAM users have now got roughly the same sound capabilities that my 12+ year retired* PII no-name slot-1 board had...and they have a CPU that's almost twice as fast as the one I had on that board! Wow!

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

GK. malibannnospam@t-online.de.

(217.113.178.29) 217.113.178.29
On Thursday, Jul 9, 2009, zee wrote:
> On Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009, jorkany wrote:

> >
> > From that thread:
> > "The sound quality from my SAM (non-Flex) is excellent, apart from the
> > initial scratchy or crackly noises when a sound starts playing."
> >
> > Please OS4 users, stop insulting the word "excellent". Makes friends with
> > the more appropriate word "sucks". Thank you.
>
> Wow, SAM users have now got roughly the same sound capabilities that my 12+
> year retired* PII no-name slot-1 board had...and they have a CPU that's
> almost twice as fast as the one I had on that board! Wow!
>

Another nasty detail about who solved the sound problem, it was not one of the Hyperion programmers, it was someone hired by ACube.

IMR the sound problems on the AmigaONE where caused by a chip, that was called 'defective' by Hyperion, the last batches of the A1 whre build without that 'defective' chip, suddenly someone found out that chip was not defective at all he just wrote a new dricer, Hyperion or Eytech where just not able to do it.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.164) [97.77.93.164]
On Thursday, Jul 9, 2009, GK wrote:
> IMR the sound problems on the AmigaONE where caused by a chip, that was
> called 'defective' by Hyperion, the last batches of the A1 whre build
> without that 'defective' chip, suddenly someone found out that chip was
> not defective at all he just wrote a new dricer, Hyperion or Eytech where
> just not able to do it.

Kind of reminds me of the MacMini port of OS4. Although incomplete, Hyperion couldn't do it.

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Re: SAM USB problem is still there....

XraalE. moo.

(130.159.17.136) [130.159.17.136]
On Thursday, Jul 9, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> On Thursday, Jul 9, 2009, GK wrote:
> > IMR the sound problems on the AmigaONE where caused by a chip, that was
> > called 'defective' by Hyperion, the last batches of the A1 whre build
> > without that 'defective' chip, suddenly someone found out that chip was
> > not defective at all he just wrote a new dricer, Hyperion or Eytech where
> > just not able to do it.
>
> Kind of reminds me of the MacMini port of OS4. Although incomplete,
> Hyperion couldn't do it.

Or the MorphOS emulator...

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