Moo Bunny Amiga - thread "The house that Rogue built"
messages from the sky (1996)

The house that Rogue built

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The house that Rogue built

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
Seems to have a cracked foundation:

http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=40323#forumpost40323
"I'm afraid that a release of the source code is very unlikely at this stage, even more so considering the reactions on AW.net."

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Re: The house that Rogue built

dammy. damocles@thenostromo.com.

(68.142.7.184) dsl-7-184.cofs.net
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> Seems to have a cracked foundation:
>
>
> http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=40323#forumpost40323
> "I'm afraid that a release of the source code is very unlikely at this
> stage, even more so considering the reactions on AW.net."

What cracks? The MPL is a wet noodle, I will be highly surprised if they ever release any code at all. GPL/LGPL is basically the only way to make sure code see sunshine at some point in time.

Dammy

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Re: The house that Rogue built

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
All just talk. If and when they manage to assemble a working build, then discussion of source would be an issue. Almost every project like this starts out with lots of talk, then nothing.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

AdmV. AdmV.

(195.11.197.194) london.stagetech.com
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> Seems to have a cracked foundation:
>
>
> http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=40323#forumpost40323
> "I'm afraid that a release of the source code is very unlikely at this
> stage, even more so considering the reactions on AW.net."
>

Jorkany,

I'm just curious, why do you care? I mean it quite seriously?
Why expend the time doing this monitoring of their activity. Even when you post, in most cases its a subject that isn't even moderatly interesting..

Given their past history, the gfact they are anti release of source code, am I supposed to be shocked, or even moderately surprised?

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Re: The house that Rogue built

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, dammy wrote:
> What cracks? The MPL is a wet noodle, I will be highly surprised if they
> ever release any code at all. GPL/LGPL is basically the only way to make
> sure code see sunshine at some point in time.

I'm not referring to the FF port project, but to AWN.
"considering the reactions on AW.net."

AWN was a "community" of the gullible and easily influenced more or less handpicked by Hyperion and Co. to promote OS4 and the A1. Problem is they called the site AMIGAWorld and not OS4World, so people interested in the AMIGA thinking it was an Amiga site were also let in.

I myself was told flat out by more than one of the more promiment membership that AWN was for the promotion of OS4 and nothing else would be tolerated. Of course this was before Mikey_C packed it in and migrated to amigans.net with a number of the core loons, after that AWN became ostensibly more open to discussion about the Amiga. But now even talk about the real Amiga - you know, the one from the 80's with the 68K - is controversial:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29686&forum=2

In fact it looks like the whole thing is close to collapse:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29688&forum=2

But about project "TIMBERWOLF", seriously who gives a flying fuck? My prediction is that the Friedens will release some half-assed beta just to save face followed by a series of updates. Kind of like OS4.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, AdmV wrote:
> I'm just curious, why do you care? I mean it quite seriously?
> Why expend the time doing this monitoring of their activity. Even when you
> post, in most cases its a subject that isn't even moderatly interesting..

Well AdmV, a few years ago I was curious about what had happened with the Amiga after Gateway. I got to checking around and ran across AmigaWorld, so thinking it was a site about the Amiga I joined up.

I found out about OS4 and the A1, and what initially turned me off to the A1 was when I realized it was a scam. At that time I still thought Hyperion was a real contractor hired by AInc., but after a bit of investigating I found out that the OS4 deal had been conceived by Ben Hermans. Of course it didn't take long to find out about BenH. It also didn't take long to find out that the Friedens saw the Amiga as a fame grab.

I really loved the Amiga, next to my Atari 8-bitter it was the most fun computer I've ever owned. So I tried to express how I felt about Hyperion and Co. abusing the Amiga name for their own selfish purposes. Of course this didn't go over too well on AWN.

Nowdays, I really don't care about the Amiga. I was so whole disgusted with the whole state of things that I unloaded mine at a local Salvation Army a few years ago. If I want to play Amiga games there's UAE.

So why do I keep posting here? I guess pretty much for the same reason any of the regulars do. You make it sound like it takes a lot of time to read the new threads on AWN or amigans.net, but it usually only takes me the length of time of one cup of coffee or a boring telecon. Admittedly a bit longer this morning since I've responded in length to your post.

Anyway, I get some feeling of amusement out of the posturings and flailing about of the OS4 community. It's like a hispanic soap opera without the hot latinas. I'll probably stay tuned in until the end, and I hope you'll forgive me if I sometimes share what I find amusing here.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

AdmV. AdmV.

(195.11.197.194) london.stagetech.com
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, AdmV wrote:
> > I'm just curious, why do you care? I mean it quite seriously?
> > Why expend the time doing this monitoring of their activity. Even when you
> > post, in most cases its a subject that isn't even moderatly interesting..
>
> Well AdmV, a few years ago I was curious about what had happened with the
> Amiga after Gateway. I got to checking around and ran across AmigaWorld, so
> thinking it was a site about the Amiga I joined up.
>
> I found out about OS4 and the A1, and what initially turned me off to the
> A1 was when I realized it was a scam. At that time I still thought Hyperion
> was a real contractor hired by AInc., but after a bit of investigating I
> found out that the OS4 deal had been conceived by Ben Hermans. Of course it
> didn't take long to find out about BenH. It also didn't take long to find
> out that the Friedens saw the Amiga as a fame grab.
>
> I really loved the Amiga, next to my Atari 8-bitter it was the most fun
> computer I've ever owned. So I tried to express how I felt about Hyperion
> and Co. abusing the Amiga name for their own selfish purposes. Of course
> this didn't go over too well on AWN.
>
> Nowdays, I really don't care about the Amiga. I was so whole disgusted with
> the whole state of things that I unloaded mine at a local Salvation Army a
> few years ago. If I want to play Amiga games there's UAE.
>
> So why do I keep posting here? I guess pretty much for the same reason any
> of the regulars do. You make it sound like it takes a lot of time to read
> the new threads on AWN or amigans.net, but it usually only takes me the
> length of time of one cup of coffee or a boring telecon. Admittedly a bit
> longer this morning since I've responded in length to your post.
>
> Anyway, I get some feeling of amusement out of the posturings and flailing
> about of the OS4 community. It's like a hispanic soap opera without the hot
> latinas. I'll probably stay tuned in until the end, and I hope you'll
> forgive me if I sometimes share what I find amusing here.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I suspect many (me included) took deep dislike to many goings on. But from where I sit, these people are hardly worth the effort, hence I was pondering why you are still motivated.


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Re: The house that Rogue built

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
Even if they do get Firefox ported, they'll quickly find it's not quite as fun to use on a 800 MHz processor as it used to be... :)

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Re: The house that Rogue built

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> Even if they do get Firefox ported, they'll quickly find it's not quite as
> fun to use on a 800 MHz processor as it used to be... :)


That would be because it's a _bloated piece of open source shit_!


Only when a project is coded commercially can you get SMALL EFFICIENT software.

Let me make the exception for, SMALL coding teams or bedroom coders, they also are very capable of SMALL EFFICIENT pieces of excellent SW.

That is why I am TOTALLY AGAINST the open sourcing of ANY AOS version, even 1.0.

Also, there are cases when even commercial ventures lead to BLOATED PIECES OF CRAP, that being MacOSX and win-dross (any variant).


I have spoken, it is so.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

GK. malibannNOSPAM@t-online.de.

(79.216.242.43) [79.216.242.43]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:

> > Even if they do get Firefox ported, they'll quickly find it's not quite as
> > fun to use on a 800 MHz processor as it used to be... :)

> That would be because it's a _bloated piece of open source shit_!
> Only when a project is coded commercially can you get SMALL EFFICIENT
> software.
>

LOL you should have seen Mozilla (pre Firefox) when it was a commercial Software, but maybe you didn't remember and the WindowsXP you liked so much is commercial too.

Netscape was a good Browser before it mutated into a Browser-EMail-Newsreader Monster.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, GK wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
>
> > > Even if they do get Firefox ported, they'll quickly find it's not quite as
> > > fun to use on a 800 MHz processor as it used to be... :)
>
> > That would be because it's a _bloated piece of open source shit_!
> > Only when a project is coded commercially can you get SMALL EFFICIENT
> > software.
> >
>
> LOL you should have seen Mozilla (pre Firefox) when it was a commercial
> Software, but maybe you didn't remember and the WindowsXP you liked so much


How dare you!!!...... when did I _EVER_ say I like winXPeee?


> is commercial too.
>
> Netscape was a good Browser before it mutated into a
> Browser-EMail-Newsreader Monster.
>

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Re: The house that Rogue built

kaos. ....

(82.215.55.15) 15-55-215.ftth.xms.internl.net
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> How dare you!!!...... when did I _EVER_ say I like winXPeee?

It looks like you're spending more quality time with Windows than you do with OS4 :P

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Re: The house that Rogue built

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, kaos wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> > How dare you!!!...... when did I _EVER_ say I like winXPeee?
>
> It looks like you're spending more quality time with Windows than you do
> with OS4 :P



Hehehe, I love EverQuest, so shoot me.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

Kronos. ich@hier.kom.

(217.236.73.137) [217.236.73.137]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:

> .... so shoot me.

Don't you dare me ....

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Re: The house that Rogue built

notAtheist2. .@..

(65.183.246.217) dsl-mhd.atm.702communications.com
> Also, there are cases when even commercial ventures lead to BLOATED PIECES
> OF CRAP, that being MacOSX and win-dross (any variant).

It's worth noting that with the upcoming release of Win7, MS is actually releasing a new version of their OS that DOES NOT require more substantial hardware than the previous version (Vista). Reviews of early builds, in fact, noted that 7 ran FASTER than Vista on the same hardware. Haven't seen a review of the RTM version that addresses this yet, but would expect similar performance.

Which is not to say Win7 doesn't contain bloat. But it's a move in the right direction.

> I have spoken, it is so.

Yes, I'm sure everyone here who's followed your uninformed rants about XP values your opinion that highly.

> Hehehe, I love EverQuest, so shoot me.

Not necessary. EverCrack will remove you from society efficiently enough.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

minator. @@@.

(78.105.201.193) [78.105.201.193]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> Even if they do get Firefox ported, they'll quickly find it's not quite as
> fun to use on a 800 MHz processor as it used to be... :)
>

800MHz processor with no L2. I recently heard some figures of what happens to performance when you drop L2, performance drops about 80%.

What puzzles me is why they picked Firefox. Webkit being smaller and faster would be a much better choice for the likes of AmigaOS.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

.. ..

(80.239.242.94) [80.239.242.94]
On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > Even if they do get Firefox ported, they'll quickly find it's not quite as
> > fun to use on a 800 MHz processor as it used to be... :)
>
>
> That would be because it's a _bloated piece of open source shit_!
>
>
> Only when a project is coded commercially can you get SMALL EFFICIENT
> software.
>

Yeah, like Chrome! Or Safari! Or Dolphin! Oh wait, all three of those are based on the opensource Web kit... Damn. (Dolphin is the browser that comes with the Samsung Genio mobile phone).

Firefox has moved from it's original stated purpose as a lightweight web browser, it is however, whether you like it or not, the best supported web browser currently available in terms of compatibility and web standards.

> Let me make the exception for, SMALL coding teams or bedroom coders, they
> also are very capable of SMALL EFFICIENT pieces of excellent SW.
>
> That is why I am TOTALLY AGAINST the open sourcing of ANY AOS version, even
> 1.0.
>

The fact that it is at this stage open sourcing at this late stage is probably the only thing that has even slightest of hope of succeeding in any way shape or form....

> Also, there are cases when even commercial ventures lead to BLOATED PIECES
> OF CRAP, that being MacOSX and win-dross (any variant).
>

MacOSX... I dunno it'll run quite comfortably on even G3 macs with similar performance to a Peg2. As for Windows... Ugh wake up, even XP, if run through BartPE will work reasonably well on positively anaemic hardware.

>
> I have spoken, it is so.
>

You keep telling yourself that.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Saturday, Oct 10, 2009, minator wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 9, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > Even if they do get Firefox ported, they'll quickly find it's not quite as
> > fun to use on a 800 MHz processor as it used to be... :)
> >
>
> 800MHz processor with no L2. I recently heard some figures of what happens
> to performance when you drop L2, performance drops about 80%.
>
> What puzzles me is why they picked Firefox. Webkit being smaller and
> faster would be a much better choice for the likes of AmigaOS.

There seems to be an odd and perverse trend among OS4 fans to make their OS4 experience closer and closer to that of their PC. If they use FF on the PC, then they'd probably want to use it on OS4. And FF has been the "holy grail", out of reach for years; they believe that, once this is ported, the users will come flooding from other platforms. Like they are all waiting out there to rejoin or something...

I don't know what OWB is like on OS4, but on MOS it's actually quite usable. It's slow, but that's because the G4 is a 90s CPU, and browsing is no longer a simple parsing of metacode like it was in the 90s. If OS4 fans don't use OWB because it's too slow, then they are really, really not going to enjoy Firefox.

And to answer your original concern: if a webkit browser was indeed ported, you can bet it wouldn't get the bounty payments. It HAD to be Amiga Inc. It HAD to be Hyperion. It HAD to be "AmigaONE". And now it has to be Firefox.

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Re: The house that Rogue built

hyperrelacks. ..

(67.159.44.138) .
its a pretty steady house i would say that was build.

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