Moo Bunny Amiga - thread "MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support"
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MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

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MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

oan. oan@mohfos.net.

(193.200.150.152) [193.200.150.152]
http://www.morphos-team.net/news.html

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
I guess the Mac mobo documentation does exist after all!

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

Kronos. ich@hier.kom.

(217.236.70.13) [217.236.70.13]
On Monday, Oct 12, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> I guess the Mac mobo documentation does exist after all!

Nono, Steve Job is a blue troll only out to destroy the 1andonlytrueOS !!!!!!
Laire is useing stolen Linux sources he has just recompiled for MorphOS !!!!!!!111!!!!

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
"Red" can go jam that Sam up his ass. Mac Mini is better. Period.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

Oops. too.little@too-la.te.

(72.77.101.46) [72.77.101.46]
Dang that cheap refurb mac mini I bought has a Core2Duo and 2G of memory, so it won't run this new MorphOS. Well at least there's always snow leopard.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

Don Cox. hkjhkjh.

(82.17.144.36) cpc3-stkn4-0-0-cust35.midd.cable.ntl.com
On Monday, Oct 12, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> "Red" can go jam that Sam up his ass. Mac Mini is better. Period.
>

But still not competitive with current computers.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

GK. malibannnospam@t-online.de.

(217.113.178.29) 217.113.178.29
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Don Cox wrote:
> On Monday, Oct 12, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > "Red" can go jam that Sam up his ass.
> > Mac Mini is better. Period.

> But still not competitive with current computers.

Yes, something I would admit, even when MOS would have been ported to one of Apples G5 modells.

End even if MOS is superior to AOS4, it lacks a lot of things compared with WinXP or Linux/X11/GNU

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

pixie. ncosta@esec.pt.

(83.132.63.41) [83.132.63.41]
It seems Atheist is back to AW, in disguise... not man enough to assume himself as Atheist

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

AdmV. AdmV.

(195.11.197.194) london.stagetech.com
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, GK wrote:
> On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Don Cox wrote:
> > On Monday, Oct 12, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > > "Red" can go jam that Sam up his ass.
> > > Mac Mini is better. Period.
>
> > But still not competitive with current computers.
>
> Yes, something I would admit, even when MOS would have been ported to one
> of Apples G5 modells.
>
> End even if MOS is superior to AOS4, it lacks a lot of things compared with
> WinXP or Linux/X11/GNU

G5 models are riddled with capacitor problems - they are ones to avoid.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Don Cox wrote:
> On Monday, Oct 12, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > "Red" can go jam that Sam up his ass. Mac Mini is better. Period.
> >
>
> But still not competitive with current computers.

If OS4 had been ported to it, the same people who would be publishing this to Slashdot while typing as if they were in a perpetual state of orgasm. MorphOS is ported so Mac Mini is suddenly crap.*

The best part of the news for me is that it does make those who were determined that it couldn't or wouldn't be done look even bigger idiots than they did when they disbelieved the only group of developers left in the community who actually deliver on their promises.

(*Mac Mini was always a piece of overpriced, underspecced ugly shit.)

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Don Cox wrote:
> On Monday, Oct 12, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > "Red" can go jam that Sam up his ass. Mac Mini is better. Period.
>
> But still not competitive with current computers.

Neither is the Amiga OS's (and hasn't been since 1992 or so, and will never be), at least if you with "computers" mean Win/Mac based Desktop Workstations. This is something different.

But compared to the "Red":

MorphOS *was already faster* than OS4 on the same hardware (The Pegasos 2 being the fastest HW that OS4 can run on, which *runs circles* around any "G2" class CPU (i.e. Sam 440, Efika)).

But now MorphOS runs on hardware that (in some specific cases) can be close to 2x as fast as the Pegasos 2 and is both *easier* and *cheaper* to acquire as second hand, while "the Red" hardware (Sam 440, single "G2") is *priced* like a YDL Power Station (quad core G5), but *is outperformed by todays PDA's*.

Furthermore, MorphOS has the upper hand when it comes to features! OS4 simply falls short there as well! And MorphOS has all the better Amiga standards (GUI, USB, RTG, printing, etc), while OS4 got "the leftovers". And most important to any Amiga enthusiast - MorphOS has superior Amiga compatibility compared to OS4, thanks to a lot of hard and persistent work from the MorphOS developers, as well as this being an emphasized priority since the very beginning (while the OS4 devs decided completely differently).

I can't think of one single *rational argument* for an "Amiga NG enthusiast" to go the "Red" route instead of MorphOS. Not one! Not a single one! Niet, nada!

So: A big Congratulations to the MorphOS Team! :-)

Now it would be interesting to see that Obligement benchmark comparison again, but in an *expanded form* with more hardware included. I.e. how the *very same tasks* of that extensive Obligement test performs on the *whole scale* of PPC hardware (preferably presented in a multi-column table, and graphical diagrams):

Efika 5200
Sam 440
Pegasos2 G3
Pegasos2 G4
Mac Mini 1.25GHz (Slowest Mac Mini)
Mac Mini 1.58GHz (Slightly overclocked Mac Mini (which is not too uncommon AFAIK), i.e. the "top of the line" Mac Mini)

Of course MorphOS (on Mac Mini 1.58GHz) would absolutely crush OS4 (on Sam 440), but it would be cool to see in black on white by *how much*, especially since the Sam 440 is *so much more expensive*!

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, t wrote:
> I can't think of one single *rational argument* for an "Amiga NG
> enthusiast" to go the "Red" route instead of MorphOS. Not one! Not a single
> one! Niet, nada!

Here are the supposed advantages of using OS4 in a nutshell:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=29684&forum=2&viewmode=flat&order=0#511764

I don't know about you, but I don't see any of that adding up to the $800+ cost of a SAM for the beta version of an OS that leaks memory like a sieve.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

Le Stu. ..

(87.115.12.2) [87.115.12.2]
Pretty cool, but yeah those G4 Mac Minis are junk. No L3 cache means they crawl, especially running E-UAE, unfortunately.

Of course, it's all relative and Apple junk is still better than any post-Amiga junk.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Le Stu wrote:
> Pretty cool, but yeah those G4 Mac Minis are junk. No L3 cache means they
> crawl, especially running E-UAE, unfortunately.


Isn't "L3 cache" mainly a band-aid kind of patch to reduce the suffering from when a CPU chip with a much too small L2 cache is connected to main RAM through bottle necks that's just too severe to reach a decent performance?

Anyway L3 cache won't replace fast buses and memory controllers, and having plenty of L2 cache is much more important. The 7447A of the Mac Mini has 512 KB of on-chip L2 cache (the 7448 is in fact the only single core G4/e600 chip that has *more* than this). BTW, the Sam 440 has *none*!

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

Le Stu. ..

(87.115.12.2) [87.115.12.2]
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, t wrote:
> On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Le Stu wrote:
> > Pretty cool, but yeah those G4 Mac Minis are junk. No L3 cache means they
> > crawl, especially running E-UAE, unfortunately.
>
>
> Isn't "L3 cache" mainly a band-aid kind of patch to reduce the suffering
> from when a CPU chip with a much too small L2 cache is connected to main
> RAM through bottle necks that's just too severe to reach a decent
> performance?
>
> Anyway L3 cache won't replace fast buses and memory controllers, and having
> plenty of L2 cache is much more important. The 7447A of the Mac Mini has
> 512 KB of on-chip L2 cache (the 7448 is in fact the only single core
> G4/e600 chip that has *more* than this). BTW, the Sam 440 has *none*!
>

Oh, I'm sure they'll be better than anything Amigaland has seen for PPC but the lack of L3 cache is a big performance killer with the G4 Macs. I had the original 12" Aluminium Powerbook and the last generation of G4 Mac Mini. Neither have L3 cache and you can really tell when doing encoding, emulation or anything else cache intensive.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

GK. malibannnospam@t-online.de.

(217.113.178.29) 217.113.178.29
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, jorkany wrote:

> Here are the supposed advantages of using OS4 in a nutshell:

- Multiview & many other ...

Not an OS, this is an application.

* Drag & drop from Workbench to other screens ...

Not between screens, Drad & Drop is between applications but nice if they have an improvement.

- Draggable RTG screens! ...

Existed in CGX3 under OS3.1 ... but where not a real killer argument.

- Comes with AmiPDF ...

still an application and not really an OS specific part.

* DvPlayer (demo), ...

A demo apllication you can get elswhere as 'non Demo' for free. But OK the 68k hardware was to slow for it.

* No need for many 3rd-party apps ...

Apps .... not OS.

* standard Screen Blanker system.

AOS3.9 had blankers I could not remenber maybe AOS3.1 had it too.

-A standard TCP/IP system, which also works a hell of a lot better than OS3's.

It is included, I doesn't knwow if it works 'the hell better' than the systems that where in AOS3.9

-A standard USB system

Ok it is included but not really better than systems available under OS3.1

- supports SFS anyway). AHI as standard. MUI as standard.

Standards not komming from the AOS4 team ... they where programmed for AOS3.x first.

* Many 3rd-party patches ...

patches but nor real new concepts.


* Workbench has been significantly improved

But nothing really new ...

* Comes with documentation for most of OS4's components.

OK I have to admitt, OS3 has no AOS4 documentation.


------

So what is really new, som fixes some patches some minor improvements more colours on the Workbench some more hardware drivers and a slow virtual memory system that might be better than AOS3.x patches.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, GK wrote:

.....


Lots of statements of AOS4 and AOS3 being equivalent, maybe AOS3.x _wasn't_ as far away from being "modern" as everyone claims, I'd say.


>
> * Comes with documentation for most of OS4's components.
>
> OK I have to admitt, OS3 has no AOS4 documentation.

Okay, this is an LOL!


> ------
>
> So what is really new, som fixes some patches some minor improvements more
> colours on the Workbench some more hardware drivers and a slow virtual
> memory system that might be better than AOS3.x patches.


Again, AOS isn't far from modern, ONLY lacking SW that has existed before, but not in PPC compiled form factor.

In addition, there are new standards that no one CAN code, because the source is UNAVAILABLE.... meaning Flash and Java are near impossible to have, and even then, who would pay for preparing it for AOS4.x?


Quit knocking AOS, people, go use what's better, since you _think_ it exists.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

.. ..

(80.239.242.30) [80.239.242.30]
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:

>
> Again, AOS isn't far from modern, ONLY lacking SW that has existed before,
> but not in PPC compiled form factor.

It lacks a great many things that modern OS users take for granted. To say it's not far off wouldn't be a stretch, it'd be a damn lie.

Even BeOS R5, released back in 2000 offered more capabilities out of the box then AmigaOS does with all the trimmings.

>
> In addition, there are new standards that no one CAN code, because the
> source is UNAVAILABLE.... meaning Flash and Java are near impossible to
> have, and even then, who would pay for preparing it for AOS4.x?
>

Adobe will beat a path to your door if you can show the sales figures that'd make it worth their while. Further, with regard Flash there are open source players out there that are coming along quite nicely. Java... Not sure as I don't tend to need it much. But the same goes - Sun will port it if your product has the numbers to make it worthwhile to them.

>
> Quit knocking AOS, people, go use what's better, since you _think_ it
> exists.
>

So when are you going to scrap your pirated windows system?

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

GK. malibannNOSPAM@t-online.de.

(79.216.186.91) [79.216.186.91]
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, GK wrote:
>
> .....
>
>
> Lots of statements of AOS4 and AOS3 being equivalent, maybe AOS3.x _wasn't_
> as far away from being "modern" as everyone claims, I'd say.

Absolute correct AOS3.9 ist not much behind AOS4 and AOS4 is nearly as modern as Windows98 some parts less some part equal, AOS3.9 is as modern as Windows95

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Oops wrote:
> Dang that cheap refurb mac mini I bought has a Core2Duo and 2G of memory,
> so it won't run this new MorphOS. Well at least there's always snow
> leopard.

Sure, just don't use a guest login if you don't want to lose your data to a really nasty bug...

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Oops wrote:
> > Dang that cheap refurb mac mini I bought has a Core2Duo and 2G of memory,
> > so it won't run this new MorphOS. Well at least there's always snow
> > leopard.
>
> Sure, just don't use a guest login if you don't want to lose your data to a
> really nasty bug...

That's a security feature.

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Re: MorphOS 2.4 - Premier Release with Mac mini Support

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > On Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009, Oops wrote:
> > > Dang that cheap refurb mac mini I bought has a Core2Duo and 2G of memory,
> > > so it won't run this new MorphOS. Well at least there's always snow
> > > leopard.
> >
> > Sure, just don't use a guest login if you don't want to lose your data to a
> > really nasty bug...
>
> That's a security feature.

I guess having 2 GB of RAM with an OS that should really have twice as much is a security feature too - if its too slow, you're less likely to compromise your security.

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