Moo Bunny Amiga - thread "AOS4.2 for christmass"

AOS4.2 for christmass

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AOS4.2 for christmass

GK. malibannNOSPAM@t-online.de.

(79.216.246.215) [79.216.246.215]
I think Hyperion does need some money again to pay the first rate of the money for the settlement.

So they could pack a new distribution AOS4.1 together with a demo of FF that may render static web pages and sell it as AmigaOS4.2.

The Most Ambitious project might be AmigaOS4.2 or a demo version of AmigaOS running on PearPC with 80% of the Sam440 speed.


AOS4.1 may never leave Beta state.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Tuesday, Oct 20, 2009, GK wrote:

> The Most Ambitious project might be

Didn't that "ssolie" character spill the beans over at MZ already?

> AOS4.1 may never leave Beta state.

For the Sam hardware perhaps (which is kind of peculiar, since it celebrates its one-year anniversary now, and still they haven't managed to take it out of beta stage), but the Pegasos2 version certainly isn't labeled "beta"...

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009, t wrote:
> On Tuesday, Oct 20, 2009, GK wrote:
>
> > The Most Ambitious project might be
>
> Didn't that "ssolie" character spill the beans over at MZ already?

What makes you say that?

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> On Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009, t wrote:
> > On Tuesday, Oct 20, 2009, GK wrote:
> >
> > > The Most Ambitious project might be
> >
> > Didn't that "ssolie" character spill the beans over at MZ already?
>
> What makes you say that?

Well you know, he's hardly what you would call a "regular" at MorphZone, but suddenly one day, he starts posting all over the place about the "box" design of MorphOS, how that was the one and only essential feature of the OS, how that was really what everyone wanted, what we were promised, and how the MorphOS team failed so radically to deliver it.

The peculiar thing about it was that it was so completely unprovoked, like a flash from a blue summer sky! I mean, nobody has even given the "Q-box" a thought since half a decade or so, but suddenly there he was, pushing this issue like mad. I know I wasn't the only one who got the feeling that what he *really* wanted to say was: "That initial feature list of MorphOS, with a 'boxed' (microkernel) design, where the 'Amiga' environment runs untouched in a box and new exciting features (like SMP, MP, etc, etc) is added outside it, that feature list was promised to you MorphOS suckers by the MorphOS team a long time ago, this was probably what made you interested in MorphOS instead of OS4 in the first place, and the MorphOS team failed to deliver that to you, [but guess what Hyperion has been up to ... ... ...]".

It's only a guess of course, and in fact he has already denied it, but time will tell I guess. Sooner or later that "most ambitious project" will be known, and if turns out to be about boxes, SMP, or whatever related feature, then there was indeed some serious bean-spilling at MZ by him back then.

We'll see! :-)

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Tuesday, Oct 20, 2009, GK wrote:
> I think Hyperion does need some money again to pay the first rate of the
> money for the settlement.
>
> So they could pack a new distribution AOS4.1 together with a demo of FF
> that may render static web pages and sell it as AmigaOS4.2.
>
> The Most Ambitious project might be AmigaOS4.2 or a demo version of AmigaOS
> running on PearPC with 80% of the Sam440 speed.
>
>
> AOS4.1 may never leave Beta state.


All together now, start a chantin'; "clearly FUD fud fUD FUD, FUD fud fUD FUD, FUD fud fUD FUD,....." repeat, without breathing, until _blue_ in the face....

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Jorkany. Jorkany.

(67.8.225.222) [67.8.225.222]
On Thursday, Oct 22, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> On Tuesday, Oct 20, 2009, GK wrote:
> > I think Hyperion does need some money again to pay the first rate of the
> > money for the settlement.
> >
> > So they could pack a new distribution AOS4.1 together with a demo of FF
> > that may render static web pages and sell it as AmigaOS4.2.
> >
> > The Most Ambitious project might be AmigaOS4.2 or a demo version of AmigaOS
> > running on PearPC with 80% of the Sam440 speed.
> >
> >
> > AOS4.1 may never leave Beta state.
>
>
> All together now, start a chantin'; "clearly FUD fud fUD FUD, FUD fud fUD
> FUD, FUD fud fUD FUD,....." repeat, without breathing, until _blue_ in the
> face....

OS4 never made it out of prerelease, so I don't see why the idea that 4.1 might not ever get out of beta. Keep in mind that what was demonstrated at AmiWest was just another patch.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009, t wrote:
> On Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> > On Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009, t wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, Oct 20, 2009, GK wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Most Ambitious project might be
> > >
> > > Didn't that "ssolie" character spill the beans over at MZ already?
> >
> > What makes you say that?
>
> Well you know, he's hardly what you would call a "regular" at MorphZone,
> but suddenly one day, he starts posting all over the place about the "box"
> design of MorphOS, how that was the one and only essential feature of the
> OS, how that was really what everyone wanted, what we were promised, and
> how the MorphOS team failed so radically to deliver it.
>
> The peculiar thing about it was that it was so completely unprovoked, like
> a flash from a blue summer sky! I mean, nobody has even given the "Q-box" a
> thought since half a decade or so, but suddenly there he was, pushing this
> issue like mad. I know I wasn't the only one who got the feeling that what
> he *really* wanted to say was: "That initial feature list of MorphOS, with
> a 'boxed' (microkernel) design, where the 'Amiga' environment runs
> untouched in a box and new exciting features (like SMP, MP, etc, etc) is
> added outside it, that feature list was promised to you MorphOS suckers by
> the MorphOS team a long time ago, this was probably what made you
> interested in MorphOS instead of OS4 in the first place, and the MorphOS
> team failed to deliver that to you, [but guess what Hyperion has been up to
> ... ... ...]".
>
> It's only a guess of course, and in fact he has already denied it, but time
> will tell I guess. Sooner or later that "most ambitious project" will be
> known, and if turns out to be about boxes, SMP, or whatever related
> feature, then there was indeed some serious bean-spilling at MZ by him back
> then.
>
> We'll see! :-)


Well, well, what do you know, here comes the SMP announcement:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29845&forum=14

"* OS4.2 was revealed by Steven Solie:
- Multi-core (SMP) support!"

The only way of doing this in a clean way would indeed be a box approach, so now we indeed know the agenda behind his little trolling campaign over at MZ (which is exactly what we guessed back then already).

:-)

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009, t wrote:
> It's only a guess of course, and in fact he has already denied it, but time
> will tell I guess. Sooner or later that "most ambitious project" will be
> known, and if turns out to be about boxes, SMP, or whatever related
> feature, then there was indeed some serious bean-spilling at MZ by him back
> then.

Thanks for the summary.

Well SMP was announced, but is a feature any good if nobody uses it? The current crop of OS4 "developers" don't seem particularly good, or active. The last new OS4 application I read about was a Blu-Ray cataloging system, similar to when the Web first got started and people (for whatever reason) felt compelled to post lists of their CD collections.

Anyway I don't think SMP is the "most ambitious project". Given that Hyperion's sole hardware partner ACube has announced a networked storage device I'm thinking maybe they'll try to use OS4 as it's embedded OS. This is clearly in line with Hyperion's wet dream, and of course ACube would be open to doing this. Then Hyperion can approach other vendors and say "see, OS4 is teh TRUE embedded OS!"

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Rob. ..

(82.21.187.151) cpc2-neww1-0-0-cust918.cdif.cable.ntl.com
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, jorkany wrote:

> Anyway I don't think SMP is the "most ambitious project". Given that
> Hyperion's sole hardware partner ACube has announced a networked storage
> device I'm thinking maybe they'll try to use OS4 as it's embedded OS. This
> is clearly in line with Hyperion's wet dream, and of course ACube would be
> open to doing this. Then Hyperion can approach other vendors and say "see,
> OS4 is teh TRUE embedded OS!"
>

Time to read the news item on Acube's site again Jorkany.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> On Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009, t wrote:
> > It's only a guess of course, and in fact he has already denied it, but time
> > will tell I guess. Sooner or later that "most ambitious project" will be
> > known, and if turns out to be about boxes, SMP, or whatever related
> > feature, then there was indeed some serious bean-spilling at MZ by him back
> > then.
>
> Thanks for the summary.
>
> Well SMP was announced, but is a feature any good if nobody uses it?

Of course not, and it will never be SMP in the sense that people "outside" this little sub-culture would recognize as true SMP, at least not without breaking everything "Amiga". And if you are about to cut the cord with the past anyway, I really think it would be a better approach to do something in the line of the original Anubis project idea, i.e. provide a complete Amiga user *experience*, but scrapping the Amiga API and the idea of backwards compatibility altogether, and instead base the thing on a foundation already proven in server and desktop markets, with features such as multi user support, true memory protection, and true SMP already there, as well as a more or less disguised POSIX API.

I think that if Hyperion had really understood the commercial strengths and weaknesses of the Amiga OS, and its opportunities and threats, they should really have *not* put any efforts towards the "memory protection" they have now, neither the "disk swapping" implementation they have now, and certainly not the "SMP" they now seems to be planning (IMO they are destroying all their true strengths by doing all this), but instead put the efforts towards developing UI's and other interfaces and API's suitable for media centric, more or less portable devices, like netbooks, iPhone like devices (not necessarily phones, actually probably *not* phones at all), Apples upcoming tablet device (which I think will be something really novel, it will define a new consumer product category), etc. That would also involve putting some serious efforts into porting the OS to a different architecture than PPC.

I'd say that this is nothing but *yet another* example of their ad-hoc, plan less development that seems to strive towards "Amiga world domination", or at least "resurrection" from the Amiga Decade of Glory, 1985-1995. I.e. the fuzzy, woolly, Ganjah-inpired dream of Amigans since the death of Commodore. The idea seems to be that "if we only squeeze in some memory protection, VM, SMP, etc into the Amiga context, and port Firefox, then our OS will become a true desktop OS that can compete and beat other OS's on the desktop arena", or something like that.

Amigans can, and do, use *miga OS's as desktop OS's (as I do myself for some things), but no *miga OS will ever become a true, commercially viable desktop OS that can take on Windows and MacOS in any way. And why should it, when it can compete elsewhere, where it can utilize its strengths, where it at least has a shadow of a chance?


> Anyway I don't think SMP is the "most ambitious project".

Actually, I can't imagine a more ambitious project than this, at least not involving OS4. Which BTW is also something to be considered - maybe it doesn't involve their OS at all?

I think it does, however...


> Given that
> Hyperion's sole hardware partner ACube has announced a networked storage
> device I'm thinking maybe they'll try to use OS4 as it's embedded OS. This
> is clearly in line with Hyperion's wet dream, and of course ACube would be
> open to doing this. Then Hyperion can approach other vendors and say "see,
> OS4 is teh TRUE embedded OS!"

But there are embedded OS's, and there are embedded OS's. And OS4 is *even less* a server OS than it is a desktop OS. To use anything else than Linux for a NAS would be insane, and Acube has explicitly said that it will be a Linux based NAS.

I think that for the first time, Acube may have an actual product coming up (but you shouldn't underestimate the work needed on the OS/Application/WebUI area in this case, if you want to compete with existing players; the HW part could even be *the least* work-intensive part here), but it won't be anything "Amiga" about it.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, Rob wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, jorkany wrote:
>
> > Anyway I don't think SMP is the "most ambitious project". Given that
> > Hyperion's sole hardware partner ACube has announced a networked storage
> > device I'm thinking maybe they'll try to use OS4 as it's embedded OS. This
> > is clearly in line with Hyperion's wet dream, and of course ACube would be
> > open to doing this. Then Hyperion can approach other vendors and say "see,
> > OS4 is teh TRUE embedded OS!"
> >
>
> Time to read the news item on Acube's site again Jorkany.

The SAM started out running Linux too. I just wouldn't be surprised if, now with the lawsuit supposedly settled, ACube changes their tune. I think it will be something to do with ACube, since Hyperion doesn't seem to have any other partners.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, t wrote:
>
> Of course not, and it will never be SMP in the sense that people "outside"
> this little sub-culture would recognize as true SMP, at least not without
> breaking everything "Amiga". And if you are about to cut the cord with the
> past anyway, I really think it would be a better approach to do something
> in the line of the original Anubis project idea, i.e. provide a complete
> Amiga user *experience*, but scrapping the Amiga API and the idea of
> backwards compatibility altogether, and instead base the thing on a
> foundation already proven in server and desktop markets, with features such
> as multi user support, true memory protection, and true SMP already there,
> as well as a more or less disguised POSIX API.
>
> I think that if Hyperion had really understood the commercial strengths and
> weaknesses of the Amiga OS, and its opportunities and threats, they should
> really have *not* put any efforts towards the "memory protection" they have
> now, neither the "disk swapping" implementation they have now, and
> certainly not the "SMP" they now seems to be planning (IMO they are
> destroying all their true strengths by doing all this), but instead put the
> efforts towards developing UI's and other interfaces and API's suitable for
> media centric, more or less portable devices, like netbooks, iPhone like
> devices (not necessarily phones, actually probably *not* phones at all),
> Apples upcoming tablet device (which I think will be something really
> novel, it will define a new consumer product category), etc. That would
> also involve putting some serious efforts into porting the OS to a
> different architecture than PPC.
>
> I'd say that this is nothing but *yet another* example of their ad-hoc,
> plan less development that seems to strive towards "Amiga world
> domination", or at least "resurrection" from the Amiga Decade of Glory,
> 1985-1995. I.e. the fuzzy, woolly, Ganjah-inpired dream of Amigans since
> the death of Commodore. The idea seems to be that "if we only squeeze in
> some memory protection, VM, SMP, etc into the Amiga context, and port
> Firefox, then our OS will become a true desktop OS that can compete and
> beat other OS's on the desktop arena", or something like that.
>
> Amigans can, and do, use *miga OS's as desktop OS's (as I do myself for
> some things), but no *miga OS will ever become a true, commercially viable
> desktop OS that can take on Windows and MacOS in any way. And why should
> it, when it can compete elsewhere, where it can utilize its strengths,
> where it at least has a shadow of a chance?
>
>
> Actually, I can't imagine a more ambitious project than this, at least not
> involving OS4. Which BTW is also something to be considered - maybe it
> doesn't involve their OS at all?
>
> I think it does, however...
>
>
> But there are embedded OS's, and there are embedded OS's. And OS4 is *even
> less* a server OS than it is a desktop OS. To use anything else than Linux
> for a NAS would be insane, and Acube has explicitly said that it will be a
> Linux based NAS.
>
> I think that for the first time, Acube may have an actual product coming up
> (but you shouldn't underestimate the work needed on the
> OS/Application/WebUI area in this case, if you want to compete with
> existing players; the HW part could even be *the least* work-intensive part
> here), but it won't be anything "Amiga" about it.


Ahem; what BULLSHIT!

AOS4.x is _clearly_ the BEST OS available anywhere today. I kid you not.


Apple will feel the pain soon, then Linux, and last but not least, and it will be EVER SO SWEET, then the micro-shafting-scummers.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

GK. malibannNOSPAM@t-online.de.

(79.216.192.176) [79.216.192.176]
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, jorkany wrote:

> Well SMP was announced,


If someone of Hyperion announces multi-core, it doesn't automatically mean SMP.

You can use the 3nd core as a type of co-processor, like it was done with the PPC in AOS3.x the usage of GPUs under Windows will not be more like this, this can helop to increase the performance on some application, datatypes or on video. And a lot of people believe SMP and (A)SMP are the same, I don't think ChisH really has knows the difference and if he does, he act like a fanboy, beleiving is more important than knowledge.

I woulde b e suprised if they would really bring SMP ...


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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, GK wrote:

> I would be surprised if they would really bring SMP ...

They will of course never *really* bring SMP...


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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

angila. angila@lut-it.

(77.68.36.52) [77.68.36.52]
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, t wrote:
>
> They will of course never *really* bring SMP...
>

I marked your words. Hehehe.

And when they come out with it, you will of course say that it's nonesense and that it's not needed and that MOS doesn't need it and that it makes no sense on MOS, just like you replied to me in the Firefox on MOS thread. You are so predictable. And of course embarassing things like Sputnik are not a good topic to talk about. They are quietly brushed under the carpet.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

.. ..

(80.239.242.79) [80.239.242.79]
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
>
> Ahem; what BULLSHIT!
>
> AOS4.x is _clearly_ the BEST OS available anywhere today. I kid you not.
>

Which is why you use a pirated Windows machine.

> Apple will feel the pain soon, then Linux, and last but not least, and it
> will be EVER SO SWEET, then the micro-shafting-scummers.
>

When was the last time you took your meds?

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Saturday, Oct 24, 2009, . wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> >
> > Ahem; what BULLSHIT!
> >
> > AOS4.x is _clearly_ the BEST OS available anywhere today. I kid you not.
> >
>
> Which is why you use a pirated Windows machine.
>
> > Apple will feel the pain soon, then Linux, and last but not least, and it
> > will be EVER SO SWEET, then the micro-shafting-scummers.
> >
>
> When was the last time you took your meds?


I predict Amiga is not dead..... It isn't.

I predicted (heck, I _knew_ as they had an excellent solid case behind them, so was 90% certain) they'd win, and in this settlement, they essentially _did_..... 2 points now!

So, I'm not sweating on the rest of my lofty outlook (eXPress, he he) 4 what happens next with Hyperion, AOS4.x and also NatAmi, and here also, strongly believe that Hyperion will release a new OS for it TOO!!!!! (Now that NOTHING is stopping them from doing so.)


You'll all see, when NatAmi passes the 5,000 mark, they'll get that AOS upgrade, you'll all see!!!

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Don Cox. jhkjkjh.

(82.17.144.36) cpc3-stkn4-0-0-cust35.midd.cable.ntl.com
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
>
> Ahem; what BULLSHIT!
>
> AOS4.x is _clearly_ the BEST OS available anywhere today. I kid you not.
>
> Apple will feel the pain soon, then Linux, and last but not least, and it
> will be EVER SO SWEET, then the micro-shafting-scummers.
>

No Firewire support. Minimal USB support.

No Java.

No support for current scanners. Raw photos from cameras? Not on AOS4.

Lightwave? Stuck at version 4 on Amigas.

It has a long way to go to catch up with OS X. That doesn't mean an Amiga isn't a practical, useful tool for what it does well - email, DTP, etc. But any suggestion that it is broadly competitive yet is absurd.

One would always need a computer that runs Adobe software, for instance.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, angila wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, t wrote:
> >
> > They will of course never *really* bring SMP...
> >
>
> I marked your words. Hehehe.
>
> And when they come out with it

They won't "come out with it". SMP on a shared memory address space OS is nigh on impossible, SMP on a shared memory address space OS while using it to run Amiga software *is* impossible.

And don't give us any of that same bullshit when you told us about the memory protection and stack extension that was going to make MOS obsolete overnight: that crap about "only adding it for apps that ask for it". Six years later, there is no memory protection or stack extension, and even if there was it wouldn't be useful at all.

In this case SMP must stand for Spike MorphOS Publicity - you always manage to have these idiotic brainfarts around the time when MOS has some major advance. Each time less and less people believe your mince.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

GK. malibannNOSPAM@t-online.de.

(79.216.219.5) [79.216.219.5]
On Saturday, Oct 24, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:

> You'll all see, when NatAmi passes the 5,000 mark,

5000 ? In 10 years as emulation mode in UAE ... maybe.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

megol. .@..

(90.233.213.112) [90.233.213.112]
On Saturday, Oct 24, 2009, XraalE wrote:
>
> They won't "come out with it". SMP on a shared memory address space OS is
> nigh on impossible, SMP on a shared memory address space OS while using it
> to run Amiga software *is* impossible.
>
I must protest this aggression against SASOS designs. There is nothing that prevents SMP, nor memory protection for a single address space design. The problem is "unique" for the Amiga, and even there the system would been able to support SMP with some changes. Now it isn't if one wants to keep backwards compatibility but then AOS4 users are probably prepared to sacrifice that.
> And don't give us any of that same bullshit when you told us about the
> memory protection and stack extension that was going to make MOS obsolete
> overnight: that crap about "only adding it for apps that ask for it". Six
> years later, there is no memory protection or stack extension, and even if
> there was it wouldn't be useful at all.
>
By using virtual memory and allocating, say 4MiB virtual space for each stack segment it is possible, but it isn't that useful in a Amiga setting anyway.
> In this case SMP must stand for Spike MorphOS Publicity - you always manage
> to have these idiotic brainfarts around the time when MOS has some major
> advance. Each time less and less people believe your mince.
>

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, angila wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, t wrote:
> >
> > They will of course never *really* bring SMP...
> >
>
> I marked your words. Hehehe.

OK, mark on...

A SMP capable OS schedules both its own OS components/services as well as all the user's applications on multiple processor cores. The result is that all the tasks that needs to be done is more or less evenly distributed on the available processing resources, according to some process scheduling policy of the OS. So if you have some HW with 4x 1.25GHz cores, the whole OS and all programs you are running shares these resources like it would be one single 5.0GHz CPU (well, not really actually, it will of course never reach that level in practice, but for the sake of the discussion, let's overly simplify things). *This* is what people mean with SMP, and what people expect when hearing about a SMP capable OS.

This is not possible in Amiga. Not without breaking everything Amiga as we know it. And if you are about to sacrifice everything Amiga anyway, I think you would be better of and save yourself some time by starting with a clean slate with something like Anubis, i.e. something completely new and different but that aims to give the user a complete AmigaOS look and feel experience (minus all the Amiga programs, of course).

So you could either have true SMP (as people knows it), *OR* you could have Amiga. You have to pick one, you can't have both.

But there is also a third (theoretical) option - you could do it the way the MorphOS team planned to do it at one point far back in history, i.e. *box in* the Amiga environment (which they of course did), and then add all the new, fancy stuff *outside* that Amiga Box (which never happened, they focused on what's *inside* the A-box instead). This is obviously what OS4 has coming now. It's probably the best you can do if you want to merge those two features (SMP and Amiga) in a clean way. But this won't take you all the way. The result will be that you'll have one 1.25GHz core where the Amiga box runs (containing at least 99.9% of the OS and about 100% of the Amiga applications), and then 3x 1.25GHz cores that's ready for new SW custom written to utilize this SMP feature (hence they will be practically un-used). And the *challenges* of doing this are *enormous* AFAIK, if it *can even be done* in an acceptable way at all, which I kind of question. And even then you will never reach real SMP by its true definition. So the question that Hyperion obviously never asked is: "Why bother?"

So again, no matter how hard they try, they will never *really* bring SMP, not without sacrificing the "Amiga" part of their OS...

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

GM. malibannNOSPAM@t-online.de.

(79.216.221.19) [79.216.221.19]
On Sunday, Oct 25, 2009, t wrote:

> > I marked your words. Hehehe.
>
> OK, mark on...
>
> A SMP capable OS schedules both its own OS ...

you know the 'Ambiguous Project' getting a BSD/Linux kernel and implemengt a A/Box for it. This could bring SMP 'cause Linux and BSD are available for SMP. Oh yes they can call it AmigaOS5 because they have the license to do it most fanboys woul cheer antd they would not even undestand the digfference between a boxed OS without SMP capabillities running on a SMP kernel.

But I don't have a cluie what hardware they would target this OS .

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Not PM ahtuos. ##.

(82.69.171.91) [82.69.171.91]
On Saturday, Oct 24, 2009, Don Cox wrote:
> Lightwave? Stuck at version 4 on Amigas.

There's Lightwave 5 for Amigas. But because it cost more than Amigans were used to paying (when they were willing to pay for something at all rather than just making malware-ridden illegal copies) few people had it.

I would assume that sooner or later someone will ship binaries of Blender for OS4 as on MorphOS. Blender basically makes the sub-$1000 products redundant except for the usual affinity artists have for a tool they're familiar with. That means everybody making a $100 3D package that lost money in 2008 is losing more money in 2009 and it won't get any better.

In the grand tradition of Amiga-related companies making spectacularly bad commercial decisions, Bill Panagouleas chose this period in which to try to re-launch Aladdin 4D.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

GK. malibannNOSPAM@t-online.de.

(79.216.226.160) [79.216.226.160]
On Sunday, Oct 25, 2009, Not PM ahtuos wrote:
> Bill Panagouleas chose this period in which
> to try to re-launch Aladdin 4D.

When there was talking about a possible OS buyout of Aladdin4D I looked to the demo pictures on their Web side ... I think Blender was already better under MOS. Maybe Aladin has a better editor but for a 3D renderer with outdated features it seemed to expensive.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Sunday, Oct 25, 2009, GK wrote:
> On Sunday, Oct 25, 2009, Not PM ahtuos wrote:
> > Bill Panagouleas chose this period in which
> > to try to re-launch Aladdin 4D.
>
> When there was talking about a possible OS buyout of Aladdin4D I looked to
> the demo pictures on their Web side ... I think Blender was already better
> under MOS. Maybe Aladin has a better editor but for a 3D renderer with
> outdated features it seemed to expensive.

Just the crappy output of Aladdin4D makes it too expensive. For the same price you can get Bryce which has been under almost constant development since the 90's and runs on modern OSes.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

t. t.

(84.23.159.2) 84.23.159.2
Anyway, we now know his agenda behind doing these threads:

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6248
http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6285
http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6287

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Tuesday, Oct 27, 2009, t wrote:
> Anyway, we now know his agenda behind doing these threads:
>
>
> http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6248
>
> http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6285
>
> http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6287
>

ssolie is the illegitimate child of Bouma.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Tuesday, Oct 27, 2009, t wrote:
> Anyway, we now know his agenda behind doing these threads:
>
>
> http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6248
>
> http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6285
>
> http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6287

ssolie is a patsy for Hyperion, nothing more.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Tuesday, Oct 27, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> ssolie is the illegitimate child of Bouma.

Hyperion couldn't get MB so they had to go for second string.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Concerned Citized. concerned@yahoo.com.

(217.169.121.9) [217.169.121.9]
On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> AOS4.x is _clearly_ the BEST OS available anywhere today. I kid you not.
...
> Apple will feel the pain soon, then Linux, and last but not least, and it
> will be EVER SO SWEET, then the micro-shafting-scummers.

Man, Are You for real?

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

dammy. damocles@thenostromo.com.

(68.142.7.184) dsl-7-184.cofs.net
On Wednesday, Oct 28, 2009, Concerned Citized wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 23, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> > AOS4.x is _clearly_ the BEST OS available anywhere today. I kid you not.
> ...
> > Apple will feel the pain soon, then Linux, and last but not least, and it
> > will be EVER SO SWEET, then the micro-shafting-scummers.
>
> Man, Are You for real?

Do you really want to know?

Dammy

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Jupp3. d@b.

(131.207.221.46) [131.207.221.46]
On Sunday, Oct 25, 2009, t wrote:
>
> This is not possible in Amiga. Not without breaking everything Amiga as we
> know it. And if you are about to sacrifice everything Amiga anyway, I think
> you would be better of and save yourself some time by starting with a clean
> slate with something like Anubis, i.e. something completely new and
> different but that aims to give the user a complete AmigaOS look and feel
> experience (minus all the Amiga programs, of course).

You mean like The Official Successor, Amiga Anywhere? :)

(except that it doesn't even try to mimic "look and feel", except for the occassional boing ball)

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

notAtheist2. .@..

(65.183.246.217) dsl-mhd.atm.702communications.com
> I predict Amiga is not dead..... It isn't.

"The Amiga is not dead - it's pining for the fjords."

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

the truth. thetruth.

(88.25.52.60) [88.25.52.60]
On Tuesday, Oct 20, 2009, GK wrote:

> The Most Ambitious project might be [...] a demo version of AmigaOS
> running on PearPC with 80% of the Sam440 speed.
>
80% of the Sam440 speed? That wouldn't be hard to achieve. My old pentiumIII could beat that

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

megol. .@..

(90.233.128.203) [90.233.128.203]
On Thursday, Oct 29, 2009, the truth wrote:
>
> 80% of the Sam440 speed? That wouldn't be hard to achieve. My old
> pentiumIII could beat that
>
I doubt that. PearPC had a very primitive emulation last time I looked (very long time ago) and the emulation of PPC code on x86 is hairy to say the least. Just the big endian aspect would slow a primitive emulator enormously and the effort to get the overheads reasonable are rather extreme. The P3 would have to do a lot of memory operations and register spill/fill as it have only 8 general registers compared with the 32 for a PPC, doing a good register allocation would be hard.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Friday, Oct 30, 2009, megol wrote:
> On Thursday, Oct 29, 2009, the truth wrote:
> >
> > 80% of the Sam440 speed? That wouldn't be hard to achieve. My old
> > pentiumIII could beat that
> >
> I doubt that. PearPC had a very primitive emulation last time I looked
> (very long time ago) and the emulation of PPC code on x86 is hairy to say
> the least. Just the big endian aspect would slow a primitive emulator
> enormously and the effort to get the overheads reasonable are rather
> extreme. The P3 would have to do a lot of memory operations and register
> spill/fill as it have only 8 general registers compared with the 32 for a
> PPC, doing a good register allocation would be hard.


That's why we need 80 core CPUs from intel (they have a prototype) running at 12 GHz..... ironically, win-dross(xp/vista) needs that too, to match a Sam 440 for peppy user interface response (i.e. moving the mouse pointer around the screen).

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

.. ..

(80.239.242.95) [80.239.242.95]
On Friday, Oct 30, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 30, 2009, megol wrote:
> > On Thursday, Oct 29, 2009, the truth wrote:
> > >
> > > 80% of the Sam440 speed? That wouldn't be hard to achieve. My old
> > > pentiumIII could beat that
> > >
> > I doubt that. PearPC had a very primitive emulation last time I looked
> > (very long time ago) and the emulation of PPC code on x86 is hairy to say
> > the least. Just the big endian aspect would slow a primitive emulator
> > enormously and the effort to get the overheads reasonable are rather
> > extreme. The P3 would have to do a lot of memory operations and register
> > spill/fill as it have only 8 general registers compared with the 32 for a
> > PPC, doing a good register allocation would be hard.
>
>
> That's why we need 80 core CPUs from intel (they have a prototype) running
> at 12 GHz..... ironically, win-dross(xp/vista) needs that too, to match a
> Sam 440 for peppy user interface response (i.e. moving the mouse pointer
> around the screen).
>

Take one 500Mhz celeron based Eeepc 701. Install windows XP, run it through BartPE.

Job done. Ultra slick speeds, minimal overhead at around an 8th the cost of a sam.

The end.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

GK. malibannnospam@t-online.de.

(217.113.178.29) 217.113.178.29
On Friday, Oct 30, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:

> That's why we need 80 core CPUs from intel ...

Look it doesn't matter how many cores you have, if you are emulation ONE cpu core you gat ONE single thread that will run on ONE core only.

So as long as AOS4 supports onle ONE core, pear PC can only use ONE core for emulating this core.

According to the PearPC anouncement it has 10% efficiency, this means AFAIK a 3GHz pentium might be fast enought to emulate a 300MHz PPC ...

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

dammy. damocles@thenostromo.com.

(68.142.7.184) dsl-7-184.cofs.net
On Friday, Oct 30, 2009, GK wrote:
> On Friday, Oct 30, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
>
> > That's why we need 80 core CPUs from intel ...
>
> Look it doesn't matter how many cores you have, if you are emulation ONE
> cpu core you gat ONE single thread that will run on ONE core only.
>
> So as long as AOS4 supports onle ONE core, pear PC can only use ONE core
> for emulating this core.
>
> According to the PearPC anouncement it has 10% efficiency, this means AFAIK
> a 3GHz pentium might be fast enought to emulate a 300MHz PPC ...

Doesn't that depend on if PearPC is multi threaded or not?

Dammy

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

notAtheist2. .@..

(65.183.246.217) dsl-mhd.atm.702communications.com
> That's why we need 80 core CPUs from intel (they have a prototype) running
> at 12 GHz.....

So it's oh, so horrible that a modern OS requires, say, 10GB or so (which is less than ONE PERCENT of a 1.5 TB drive, I bothered to do the math this time)...

...but it's perfectly acceptable to expect an 80-core chip at 12GHz.

Okaaaaaay...

Oh, and by the way, "Intel has no plans to bring this exact chip designed with floating point cores to market." It's a design exercise (and an interesting one at that - a number of ideas that may or may not see the light of day in future Intel offerings).
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20070204comp.htm

And I seriously doubt this prototype ran at anything like 12GHz.

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Re: AOS4.2 for christmass

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Friday, Oct 30, 2009, notAtheist2 wrote:
> > That's why we need 80 core CPUs from intel (they have a prototype) running
> > at 12 GHz.....
>
> So it's oh, so horrible that a modern OS requires, say, 10GB or so (which
> is less than ONE PERCENT of a 1.5 TB drive, I bothered to do the math this
> time)...
>
> ...but it's perfectly acceptable to expect an 80-core chip at 12GHz.
>
> Okaaaaaay...
>
> Oh, and by the way, "Intel has no plans to bring this exact chip designed
> with floating point cores to market." It's a design exercise (and an
> interesting one at that - a number of ideas that may or may not see the
> light of day in future Intel offerings).
> http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20070204comp.htm

Yes they won't make it next week, or month or year, because it SCARES them..... They know that they can't sell more computers after that because no one will need more speed, well, until win-dross 8.


It'll be funny when they look back, you know in 2013, when they go bankrupt and say "gee, we could have PWND the market, but we put the best thing we ever did "in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.'".

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