Moo Bunny Amiga - thread "So it begins..."

So it begins...

Direct link to this message

So it begins...

minator. @@@.

(78.105.201.193) [78.105.201.193]
They've been talked about for ages...
http://www.netbookchoice.com/2009/08/03/snapdragon-tegra-smartbook-push-for-q4-2009/

Now it's official:
http://armnews.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/asus-to-launch-arm-smartbook-in-early-2010/

I doubt you'll see anything beyond 1GHz in the first round but at that price who cares!
However there are rather more power CPUs on the way.

This is the first real competition to x86 for nearly 20 years. Looks like it could be real fun.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, minator wrote:
> Now it's official:
>
> http://armnews.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/asus-to-launch-arm-smartbook-in-early-2010/
>
> I doubt you'll see anything beyond 1GHz in the first round but at that
> price who cares!
> However there are rather more power CPUs on the way.


HOW TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!!

What the HELL took them SO LONG??????


Anyhow, that 1.5 GHz dual core arm would be PERFECT for an AmigaOS4.2(SMP) portable computer!!!!!


Amiga Operating System WILL be BACK IN THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!


All the naysayers are WORNG about the "death of Amiga"!!!!!!!!!!



WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO!

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, minator wrote:
> This is the first real competition to x86 for nearly 20 years. Looks like
> it could be real fun.

Nothing that doesn't run x86 code is competition for x86. PPC whupped x86's ass in 1996, 68k did it in 1986. It didn't matter. What does matter is this painful waste of time and effort that would be better directed consolidating existing non-x86 markets before Atom and its successors eat them.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, minator wrote:
> > This is the first real competition to x86 for nearly 20 years. Looks like
> > it could be real fun.
>
> Nothing that doesn't run x86 code is competition for x86. PPC whupped x86's
> ass in 1996, 68k did it in 1986. It didn't matter. What does matter is this
> painful waste of time and effort that would be better directed
> consolidating existing non-x86 markets before Atom and its successors eat
> them.


ARM _is_ stupid for not entering sooner, however, they DO have a chance.


And, AOS4.x has _a chance_ to clean house!!!!!!!

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
Battery life, 8 to 10 hours!!!!!

WOW!

Now, let's say that the dual core may be about a little less than 1/2 that, 3.7 hours, or a little more, and it's 3 to 4 times as powerful as my AmigaOne, HOW COOL IS THAT????


2009 and 2010 are the initiating years of the Amiga Worldwide Revival!


YEEEEEHHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!


AOS4.x, "Live long and prosper"!!!!!!!!


In addition to this, I know that AmigaOS will make things possible (just as in the past) things that the other OSs _can not do_, as it in fact _already does_ NOW!


NatAmi does things that THEY CAN'T DO!!!!


Too bad that they're registering "EPIC FAIL" on my meter! HA HA HA HA!!!!!

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

dammy. damocles@thenostromo.com.

(68.142.7.184) dsl-7-184.cofs.net
On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, minator wrote:
> > > This is the first real competition to x86 for nearly 20 years. Looks like
> > > it could be real fun.
> >
> > Nothing that doesn't run x86 code is competition for x86. PPC whupped x86's
> > ass in 1996, 68k did it in 1986. It didn't matter. What does matter is this
> > painful waste of time and effort that would be better directed
> > consolidating existing non-x86 markets before Atom and its successors eat
> > them.
>
>
> ARM _is_ stupid for not entering sooner, however, they DO have a chance.
>
>
> And, AOS4.x has _a chance_ to clean house!!!!!!!

No. Hyperion already said no to ARM. AROS, OTOH, porting is getting closer, day by day.

Dammy

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

Atheist2. nofudge@yahoo.com.

(64.180.70.121) [64.180.70.121]
On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, dammy wrote:
> On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, Atheist2 wrote:
> > On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > > On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, minator wrote:
> > > > This is the first real competition to x86 for nearly 20 years. Looks like
> > > > it could be real fun.
> > >
> > > Nothing that doesn't run x86 code is competition for x86. PPC whupped x86's
> > > ass in 1996, 68k did it in 1986. It didn't matter. What does matter is this
> > > painful waste of time and effort that would be better directed
> > > consolidating existing non-x86 markets before Atom and its successors eat
> > > them.
> >
> >
> > ARM _is_ stupid for not entering sooner, however, they DO have a chance.
> >
> >
> > And, AOS4.x has _a chance_ to clean house!!!!!!!
>
> No. Hyperion already said no to ARM.


What Rogue said was, (something _to the effect of_) "...the most ambitious project will make some very happy, and disappoint others."


What this means to me is, if it isn't ARM, and it _is not_ x86, then what's left is (speculating within reason) a _low cost_, low spec PPC (hopefully dual core), _or_ a high spec and high cost PPC, which we're talking about over 1 GHz and dual core also!



So, it's either increase the base user size as much as possible, or raise AOS4.x's power as many notches as possible.


We need _both_ *desperately*!

I hope it's increasing AOSs power that's coming out.


However, if it is low power, and cost, _and_ dual core, it _might not be_ that bad!

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

observer. ..

(91.111.142.184) [91.111.142.184]
@Atheist2

Get a grip. It's highly unlikely that OS4.x is being ported to ARM. And if it were, none of the existing software would work. Not only would you still need M68K emulation but now you'd also need PPC emulation.

Try using Rosetta on a high end x86. Sure, it works but the performance is significantly less than a real G4/G5 is capable of.

ARM's primary focus is on high performance per watt for small devices, not making desktop processors.

Intel are breathing down their neck with their Atom CPU. The netbook processor "war" will doubtless soon be over (if it isn't already).

Before you eat an entire bottle of sleeping pills and grab a razor blade, yes is not inconceivable that this mystery project is an OS4 to ARM port. It just isn't likely.

If OS4 wwere to be ported to anything, it's far more likely to be ported to AMD64 than ARM.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

AdmV. AdmV.

(195.11.197.194) london.stagetech.com
On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, minator wrote:
> They've been talked about for ages...
>
> http://www.netbookchoice.com/2009/08/03/snapdragon-tegra-smartbook-push-for-q4-2009/
>
> Now it's official:
>
> http://armnews.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/asus-to-launch-arm-smartbook-in-early-2010/
>
> I doubt you'll see anything beyond 1GHz in the first round but at that
> price who cares!
> However there are rather more power CPUs on the way.
>
> This is the first real competition to x86 for nearly 20 years. Looks like
> it could be real fun.


http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/05/asus_smartbook_delay/

Bananaskin. Whoops.
I dunno, your endless ARM, Delaystation 3 and other lunacy just never quite seems to work out for you. It must be terribly frustrating. Maybe you should just by an x86 based system, and move along.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

megol. .@..

(90.233.157.222) [90.233.157.222]
On Thursday, Nov 5, 2009, AdmV wrote:
>
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/05/asus_smartbook_delay/
>
> Bananaskin. Whoops.
> I dunno, your endless ARM, Delaystation 3 and other lunacy just never quite
> seems to work out for you. It must be terribly frustrating. Maybe you
> should just by an x86 based system, and move along.
>
Did ARM rape you when you where a child or something?
Grow the fuck up.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

GK. malibannnospam@t-online.de.

(217.113.178.29) 217.113.178.29
On Thursday, Nov 5, 2009, observer wrote:

>
> ARM's primary focus is on high performance per watt for small devices, not
> making desktop processors.Intel are breathing down their neck with their
> Atom CPU.

I doesn't matter if PPC, ARM or x86(ATOM,GEODE,..) has the best performance per watt ratio. I just wanted an Amigaoid OS on a desktop system for an effordable price.

So a AOS4 on ARM or a PPC Netbook for 300Euro will be something nice and it could attract some users out of the 'Amiga scene' but it is not really what I want.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

minator. @@@.

(78.105.201.193) [78.105.201.193]
On Thursday, Nov 5, 2009, AdmV wrote:

>
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/05/asus_smartbook_delay/
>
> Bananaskin. Whoops.

What, a delay? Not exactly the end of the world given they were saying they weren't going to do ARM netbooks a while back.

> I dunno, your endless ARM, Delaystation 3 and other lunacy just never quite
> seems to work out for you. It must be terribly frustrating.

Delaystation, what are you on about? I've had one for 2 1/2 years now. IBM just released OpenCL for Cell so I'm thinking of trying it next.

> Maybe you should just by an x86 based system, and move along.

I have several x86 systems.


Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

hammer. hammer@amiga.org.

(60.241.225.101) 60-241-225-101.static.tpgi.com.au
On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, minator wrote:
> They've been talked about for ages...
>
> http://www.netbookchoice.com/2009/08/03/snapdragon-tegra-smartbook-push-for-q4-2009/
>
> Now it's official:
>
> http://armnews.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/asus-to-launch-arm-smartbook-in-early-2010/
>
> I doubt you'll see anything beyond 1GHz in the first round but at that
> price who cares!
> However there are rather more power CPUs on the way.
>
> This is the first real competition to x86 for nearly 20 years. Looks like
> it could be real fun.
>
LOL at NVIDIA designing a CPU after G8x/nForce 780i(1) debacle.

1. http://www.behardware.com/html/news/?date=11-03-2009#10121

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

hammer. hammer@amiga.org.

(60.241.225.101) 60-241-225-101.static.tpgi.com.au
On Monday, Nov 2, 2009, minator wrote:
> They've been talked about for ages...
>
> http://www.netbookchoice.com/2009/08/03/snapdragon-tegra-smartbook-push-for-q4-2009/
>
> Now it's official:
>
> http://armnews.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/asus-to-launch-arm-smartbook-in-early-2010/
>
> I doubt you'll see anything beyond 1GHz in the first round but at that
> price who cares!
> However there are rather more power CPUs on the way.
>
> This is the first real competition to x86 for nearly 20 years. Looks like
> it could be real fun.
>
http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/09/17/itg-xpphone-smartphone-running-windows-xp-48-in-tft-touchscreen-amd-super-mobile-cpu-slider-full-qwerty-keyboard/

SmartPhone based on AMD Super Mobile X86 processor.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Sunday, Nov 8, 2009, hammer wrote:
> LOL at NVIDIA designing a CPU after G8x/nForce 780i(1) debacle.
>
> 1. http://www.behardware.com/html/news/?date=11-03-2009#10121

Holy shit, almost a quarter of 5N-T Deluxe were returned? I wouldn't just be looking at their design, I'd be looking at the production standards and see what's happening on the factory floor.

The "AmigaONE" had such a fierce failure rate - on some of the pictures of the boards, you could see exactly why. Ultracheap parts and solder splashes everywhere, on top of its known design flaws.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

AdmV. AdmV.

(195.11.197.194) london.stagetech.com
On Monday, Nov 9, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> On Sunday, Nov 8, 2009, hammer wrote:
> > LOL at NVIDIA designing a CPU after G8x/nForce 780i(1) debacle.
> >
> > 1. http://www.behardware.com/html/news/?date=11-03-2009#10121
>
> Holy shit, almost a quarter of 5N-T Deluxe were returned? I wouldn't just
> be looking at their design, I'd be looking at the production standards and
> see what's happening on the factory floor.

Nvidia had a whole heap of products that had flaws and serious failings, and it was not mereley limited to the 8600M/G84/G86 lines. A lot of recent chipsets had problems and issues as well.

Nvidia are still not over this mess, and are out of most of the well known tech companies deepest in the hole right now. If their new lines of GFX chippery don't sweep the board, they are in a very serious situation. Their current GPU lines are expensive to make and EOL, and their chipset business is a dead man walking, the only bright spark is in the Tegra area, and the GT300 line better be a serious 'winner' over the resurgent ATI, anything less is a disaster. ATIs 5 series is a serious winner across the board now..

Nvidia don't have a DX11 part today and Win 7 has launched. There are widespread rumours currently that Nvidia is doing a CPU, one that might create a self fulfilling chipset market for itself. The problem is they struggled in recent times to make a chipset or gfx part that did not self destruct and have issues, so confidence in them doing this is low. Even if they did make a part, one can't see a more fierce segment right now than low to midrange CPU markets.

Nvidia are very very deep in the shit and under siege in almost every segment.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

jorkany. jorkany.

(97.77.93.214) [97.77.93.214]
On Monday, Nov 9, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> The "AmigaONE" had such a fierce failure rate - on some of the pictures of
> the boards, you could see exactly why. Ultracheap parts and solder splashes
> everywhere, on top of its known design flaws.

The Teron was only meant to be an evaluation board for the MAI bridge components. They probably didn't expect a customer like Eyetech demand that they try to mass produce them.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

XraalE. moo.

(82.40.25.245) 82-40-25-245.cable.ubr04.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk
On Monday, Nov 9, 2009, jorkany wrote:
> On Monday, Nov 9, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > The "AmigaONE" had such a fierce failure rate - on some of the pictures of
> > the boards, you could see exactly why. Ultracheap parts and solder splashes
> > everywhere, on top of its known design flaws.
>
> The Teron was only meant to be an evaluation board for the MAI bridge
> components. They probably didn't expect a customer like Eyetech demand that
> they try to mass produce them.

It didn't seem to stop them.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

GK. malibannnospam@t-online.de.

(217.113.178.29) 217.113.178.29
On Tuesday, Nov 10, 2009, XraalE wrote:

> > The Teron was only meant to be an evaluation board for the MAI bridge
> > components. They probably didn't expect a customer like Eyetech demand that
> > they try to mass produce them.
>
> It didn't seem to stop them.

Evaluation boards don't have to be perfect, you get (or you do) error reports and you can develop a working hardware with this informations, if you have enough know-how.

Unfortunately the MAI chip was one of the main reasons for troubles.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

AdmV. AdmV.

(195.11.197.194) london.stagetech.com
On Monday, Nov 9, 2009, AdmV wrote:
> On Monday, Nov 9, 2009, XraalE wrote:
> > On Sunday, Nov 8, 2009, hammer wrote:
> > > LOL at NVIDIA designing a CPU after G8x/nForce 780i(1) debacle.
> > >
> > > 1. http://www.behardware.com/html/news/?date=11-03-2009#10121
> >
> > Holy shit, almost a quarter of 5N-T Deluxe were returned? I wouldn't just
> > be looking at their design, I'd be looking at the production standards and
> > see what's happening on the factory floor.
>
> Nvidia had a whole heap of products that had flaws and serious failings,
> and it was not mereley limited to the 8600M/G84/G86 lines. A lot of recent
> chipsets had problems and issues as well.
>
> Nvidia are still not over this mess, and are out of most of the well known
> tech companies deepest in the hole right now. If their new lines of GFX
> chippery don't sweep the board, they are in a very serious situation. Their
> current GPU lines are expensive to make and EOL, and their chipset business
> is a dead man walking, the only bright spark is in the Tegra area, and the
> GT300 line better be a serious 'winner' over the resurgent ATI, anything
> less is a disaster. ATIs 5 series is a serious winner across the board
> now..
>
> Nvidia don't have a DX11 part today and Win 7 has launched. There are
> widespread rumours currently that Nvidia is doing a CPU, one that might
> create a self fulfilling chipset market for itself. The problem is they
> struggled in recent times to make a chipset or gfx part that did not self
> destruct and have issues, so confidence in them doing this is low. Even if
> they did make a part, one can't see a more fierce segment right now than
> low to midrange CPU markets.
>
> Nvidia are very very deep in the shit and under siege in almost every
> segment.
>

nVIDIA seem to have moved from bad execution, to not being able to actually execute anything at all. Their new GPUs delayed some more..

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/11/02/nvidia-finally-gets-fermi-a2-taped-out/


Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

minator. @@@.

(78.105.201.193) [78.105.201.193]
On Sunday, Nov 8, 2009, hammer wrote:

> LOL at NVIDIA designing a CPU after G8x/nForce 780i(1) debacle.
>
> 1. http://www.behardware.com/html/news/?date=11-03-2009#10121

They're denying it, but if they are hiring Transmeta engineers they could be building a non-x86 VLIW core - just like Transmeta did.


>http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/09/17/itg-xpphone-smartphone-running-windows-xp-48-in-tft-touchscreen-amd-super-mobile-cpu-slider-full-qwerty-keyboard/

>SmartPhone based on AMD Super Mobile X86 processor.

Is this a joke?
You might be able to downclock a 300MHz Geode to get it into the right power range, but then it'll still be hot for a phone. Quite how you'd use XP on a 5" screen I've no idea but I doubt the batter will last long enough for you to worry about it.



Anyway, back to the topic, something is up tomorrow:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/11/qualcomm_smartbook/


Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

Jungle Bunny. #.

(65.121.157.245) 65-121-157-245.dia.static.qwest.net
On Thursday, Nov 12, 2009, minator wrote:

> >SmartPhone based on AMD Super Mobile X86 processor.
>
> Is this a joke?
> You might be able to downclock a 300MHz Geode to get it into the right
> power range, but then it'll still be hot for a phone. Quite how you'd use
> XP on a 5" screen I've no idea but I doubt the batter will last long enough
> for you to worry about it.

Check out the OQO model 2

http://www.oqo.com/products/model2+/features.html

All it needs is a phone.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

minator. @@@.

(78.105.201.193) [78.105.201.193]
On Thursday, Nov 12, 2009, minator wrote:

> Anyway, back to the topic, something is up tomorrow:
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/11/qualcomm_smartbook/



This industry is bizarre sometimes.

Freescale have been showing off the Pegatron netbook for seeming ever now, but can you buy them yet? no.

Asus initially sad they weren't very interested (despite the fact they were showing one at the time), now they've announced one.


Lenovo were the one company who were openly disinterested in ARM netbook.

The netbook Qualcomm announced is made by ...Lenovo.
The one company who weren't interested and it looks like Lenovo could be one of the first to the market. WTF?


Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

hammer. hammer@amiga.org.

(60.241.225.101) 60-241-225-101.static.tpgi.com.au
On Thursday, Nov 12, 2009, minator wrote:
> On Sunday, Nov 8, 2009, hammer wrote:
>
> > LOL at NVIDIA designing a CPU after G8x/nForce 780i(1) debacle.
> >
> > 1. http://www.behardware.com/html/news/?date=11-03-2009#10121
>
> They're denying it, but if they are hiring Transmeta engineers they could
> be building a non-x86 VLIW core - just like Transmeta did.
>
>
>
> >http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/09/17/itg-xpphone-smartphone-running-windows-xp-48-in-tft-touchscreen-amd-super-mobile-cpu-slider-full-qwerty-keyboard/
>
>
> >SmartPhone based on AMD Super Mobile X86 processor.
>
> Is this a joke?
Not a joke.

> You might be able to downclock a 300MHz Geode to get it into the right
> power range, but then it'll still be hot for a phone. Quite how you'd use
> XP on a 5" screen I've no idea but I doubt the batter will last long enough
> for you to worry about it.
>
http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/17948

AMD BobCat is sub 1 watt capable and 90 percent of today's mainstream preformance.

Do you recall AMD's reverse hyper-threading discussions? Refer to AMD Bulldozer core.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

Anon. .

(75.18.209.214) [75.18.209.214]
On Friday, Nov 13, 2009, hammer wrote:
> Do you recall AMD's reverse hyper-threading discussions? Refer to AMD
> Bulldozer core.

You mean the complete bullshit discussions by fanbois who were hoping for some kind of killer innovation out of AMD? Bulldozer isn't vindication of that idiocy.

"Reverse hyper-threading" was supposed to involve two full x86 cores being able to optionally pool their resources in order to run a single thread much faster than either one could on its own. Bulldozer is a 2-thread CPU core where some execution units (FP) and resources (icache, fetch, decode, L2) are shared between the 2 threads and some (int, L1 dcache) are not. This means it has characteristics different from both reverse-HT fanwankery and Intel-style HT, though it's more similar to Intel HT than r-HT.

Reply to this
Direct link to this message

Re: So it begins...

minator. @@@.

(78.105.201.193) [78.105.201.193]
Well, they're beginning to arrive:

A bit under the radar but HP just announced a Marvell ARM based "t5300 Essential Series client".

So, that's the top 4 PC makers all having announced ARM based kit...


Told youse it's getting interesting...

Reply to this

Short list view

Previous thread - Next thread

Back to Moo Bunny

It is now: 23:29:47 GMT.
Moo Bunny brand Message Boards
[General Stuff (22:03:01)] [Space (Aug 2009)] [Anime (2007)]
[WalkingFish (Oct 3)] [Cabinet of Curiosities (2007)] [Portland (2008)]
Retro and Exotic Computing
[Atari ST (2007)] [WeirdMac (Jan 2009)]
Amiga Boards
[Amiga Section (23:25:50)]
John Shepard's Projects
[Rastport (Tuesday)] [Squid's Amiga Page & Rumor Mill (n/a)] [Art by John Shepard (Sep 2009)]